Damp Rusting Cabinet Questions

[Cpl. Ashencheeks]

I pretty much live in a very dry environment so it made sense to build a damp cabinet for rust browning.


I had no real plans, but just found some images of rusting boxes around the internet and in one of my books and just kind of eyeballed everything together and made adjustments as it went together.

It is made from 1x2s and door skin and the door is shut with hook and eye hardware with hinges held steady by molding which is not for looks but utility.

The door of the cabinet will readily accommodate a 42" long barrel but will pieces of metal if the doubtful need should ever present itself.

I built it around a humidifier found in most any drug store.



I have some questions before using it.

I will be using LMF browning reagent.

I have an option to use either the humidifier or a light bulb and pan.



Is there an advantage to using one over the other?

With the bulb and pan I am guessing the humidity would be a little more controlled but slower and perhaps more consistent throughout the box.

With the humidifier it would be a lot quicker to bring the humidity up but I was wondering if it ends up 'raining in the barracks', would this be problematic to metal finishes while browning them?

Someone in my household also expressed a concern over possible mold issues and asked if it should be ventilated.

Any hints or tips on using a tool like this?

Thank for reading this.

 

[Cpl. Ashencheeks]

Above Sentence Correction:

The door of the cabinet will readily accommodate a 42" long barrel but will take longer pieces of metal if the doubtful need should ever present itself.

I could swear I check these things before posting and that the forum editor occasionally omits things I have written.

I have even checked by copying and pasting into notepad before final posting to a thread.

This seems to happen quite often on this forum more than others and my written grammar although not perfect, is usually much better.

 

[Scota4570]

I would add a computer PSU fan or similar. I is a big problem if you get condensation. It will ruin the job. I would go with a hot plate for the water and a light bulb for additional heat above the water. IT is fine line between enough humidity and condensation.

I also live in CA, on the coast. It is to dry rust brown. I sometimes leave a barrel behind my grape vines, against a fence, and in the shade. Mostly I use Birchwood Casey.

I never could get a damp box to work. I think it really needs a thermostat and a humidastat (if there is such a thing).

 

[BrownBear]

I tried a humidifier, and in our wet climate anyway, it was too wet. Best for me was to put a wet towel in there and let the heat of the lamp and the evap from the wet towel provide just the right humidity. Results were a whole lot more uniform. No fan here.

 

[Chowmif16]

My guess is that if you use the humidifier, you will get condensation on the barrel.
You might hang a piece of steel rod or some such in there with the humidifier as a test to see if it gets condensation before you try your barrel.

If you do go with a hot plate and a pot of water, test that out first too. I used that method to do a pistol barrel, and I let the hot plate get too hot. It boiled the water and created condensation on the barrel.

My gut says you might go with a damp towel and the lightbulb.

Cheers,
Chowmi

 

[Scota4570]

The water needs to be about body temp, no more. The light bulb, hopefully, keeps the box above dew point. It certainly works great once it is dialed in. That is mostly for folks who do it every day. I gave up on it.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I don't often brown my barrels and I don't have space to store a humidity cabinet, so I make use of an alternative cabinet. During these hot and humid summers here in Missouri, I find my van to be a suitable humidity box.

I made a fixture to hold the barrel. I used Wahkon Bay True Brown as the browning agent. After 6 applications over 5 days, I had a nice even deep brown color.

 

[Zonie]

I built a box similar to yours based somewhat on a design shown in "Gunsmithing Tips & Projects", ©1989, Wolfe Publishing Co., Prescott, Az., pp.294-297

The main difference between mine and the one shown in the book is, they used a hotplate with a thermostat and a stainless steel 2 quart pan to provide the moisture.

Not having such a hotplate I installed a incandescent 120w light bulb and a variable wall switch so I could adjust the heat the bulb produces.
Above this light, I installed a removable shelf with a form fitting cutout thru it to hold a small aluminum cake pan for the water.

I also fully insulated the compartment the light bulb is located in using styrofoam and aluminum foil.


Above the water pan shelf I installed another light bulb which is also controlled with a variable wall switch.

This bulb is to the side, with a small shield at the end.
The purpose of this bulb is to provide heat to the cabinet and create an updraft to slowly circulate the air.

There are provisions to install 3 removable shelves. These shelves have over 1 inch of clearance to the front and rear of the cabinet to allow air circulation from top to bottom.

If I am browning a barrel, the shelves are removed and a ceiling hook at the top serves as a place to hang the barrel.

There is a place to hang a thermometer on the inside of the compartment and the last time I used it, I hung a small sending unit for an outside thermometer/humidity guage.

The door, like yours is hung using simple hinges with hook and eyes to hold the door shut.

There was a fairly long learning curve to learn how much heat was needed with both bulbs and IMO, the answer depends on where a person lives and what the humidity and temperature is outside the box.
(In other words, I can't tell you about what temperatures and settings will work for you but it is a good idea to buy some lengths of steel to experiment with.)

I did learn, too much humidity is worse than not enough and condensation because of the high humidity or too low of a temperature in the box will create a disaster within 15 minutes.
For this reason, it's a good idea to warm the barrel after the browning solution is applied but before the barrel/parts are put into the box.
Putting a cool barrel into a hot, humid box will cause problems like you wouldn't believe.

 

[Swamp Rat]

I would remove the humidifier, You will end up with to much water in the air. move the light to the bottom and just use a wet towel or pan of water. Here in SC this time of year. I just turn the ac off in the garage.

 

[bubba.50]

with an upright cabinet like that, would there be any issue with the lower end rustin' more/heavier/faster than the upper end? or vise-versa due to the steam/moisture risin' to the top?

 

[M. De Land]

I had some of those issues until a computer fan was installed in one upper corner of the vertical cabinet.
This solved the problem and now the heat and humidity gets circulated uniformly through out.

 

[bubba.50]

thanks for the answer & solution. :hatsoff:

 

[Cpl. Ashencheeks]

One other option I might consider is a coffee cup warmer given to me as a stocking stuffer for Christmas.

It does not heat a filled coffee cup any further than keeping coffee warm enough to drink and no more.

Still I am thinking those of you who had suggested nothing more than a damp towel and a light bulb, that your hunches might be the best bet.

Humidity never really gets beyond 10 to 15% unless thunderstorms are in season.

It is hot here right now with triple digits being common for week long stretches in the summer and very dry as I had stated before in the above post.

Thank you everyone for all the suggestions.

 

[jerrywh]

I regret to tell this but Rusting cabinets are a total waste of time and money. I built one of these 25 years ago and discovered that they cause more problems than they do good in my opinion.
The main problem they cause is too much moisture.
when browning it is detrimental to let water drops get on the metal. The water drops cause spots and very uneven browning. Also the moisture tends to be mostly concentrated in the top of the box.
Best method I have found so far is to first put some dowels in the ends of the barrel for handling. Then lay down some wet cotton rags on a hard surface and place the barrel over them by setting it on some blocks about 2" to 4" above the wet rags. Then cover the barrel loosely with aluminum foil. try not to let the foil touch the barrel. To regulate the moisture just remove the foil when necessary.
Another good way is to put the barrel in a damp cardboard box. Don't let it touch the box.
If the barrel is lying horizontally the moisture will be evenly distributed throughout the length of the barrel.
You can make a smoker out of the damp box. It will work good for that.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I feel for for folk that can't get stuff to rust. Where I live in Alabama a night out in the damp is plenty to start the process.

Here is my "hot box", under the roof of my archery target frame.



One nights out result with a coat of LMF;

 

[MSW]

fwiw, I like Zonie's design the best ... fills all the requirements without being overdesigned or descending into gadgetry. (especially the second lightbulb - that's really clever)

I would hazard a guess that the humidifier will make too much moisture, and you'll get condensation on the barrel, which will be a great deal of work to fix. but try it on some scrap and see - perhaps my kids are right after all and I really am FoS ... warm the barrel before you put it in there (think how a glass of ice water 'sweats' on a humid day)

good luck with your project, and keep us posted...

pictures ... we love pictures

good luck with your project!

 

[M. De Land]

I've seen folks get good result in a shower stall using LMF.
Here in Alaska we have very low humidity as a rule especially in cool or cold weather which is most of the year up here.
My vertical cabinet with a hot plate, fan and hydrometer makes it possible for me to get repeatable results at any time of year irrespective of relative humidity.
It has also proven to be necessary for other types of cold rusting which are more finicky than is the very forgiving LMF method and solution.
But then there are different levels of quality even with LMF finishes. Bright sun light will very quickly reveal depth and evenness of finish with any cold rust process.

 

[Dane]

I've been using a damp box for 20 plus years with no problems at all.
I built mine 1'x1'x4', but horizontally, with a couple of half depth boards to lay the barrels on. Put small pieces on a card board box. You can cut holes for,the screws to stand up, slots for triggerguards lugs, etc.
For humidity, all you need are some damp towels, or rags in the bottom. In the winter, I'll add a flood light directed on the side of the box from the outside.
You DON'T need the humidity so high that is condenses! Think damp towels, not wet.
Works like a charm.

 

[Cpl. Ashencheeks]

As far as I can tell, so far so good, as I have been watching my barrel very carefully. I wish I could tell if results so far are proper for sure.

I have been using dampened rags hanging from the inside framing and then a shelf to rest the barrel upright. I have been flipping the barrel to deal with the possibility of browning on one end more than the other.

It is currently 100 degrees Fahrenheit outside and the cabinet is holding about 5 to 8 degrees above that.

Humidity inside is showing about 48% with a budget thermometer and hygrometer and was brought a little higher by using the coffee cup warmer with a mug of water at the bottom of the cabinet which is essentially a small hotplate that does not go any higher than keeping a coffee cup warm. I decided to turn it off for fear of bringing humidity too high. I am still not sure about using this tiny hotplate.

The lamp seems to be the best at holding a constant temperature in the cabinet.

There are holes on the bottom of the barrel that are used to hold a ramrod thimble and swivel with screws in them that are covered with teflon tape; this area and the ignition drum have been presenting problems as far as getting browning solution applied to the barrel in one very light swipe along the barrel.

I hope my end results will be satisfactory enough were I do not have to start over again. So far after carding with canvas, the metal shows a light flat rust colored brown but some spots are not taking as well as I would like yet.

I have been very careful with the amount of LMF solution and if I went any lighter on application of it I don't think I would be even touching the barrel.

 

[Zonie]

Although LMF Browning says it doesn't mind some oil on the surface, after you finish carding with the canvas you might try degreasing the barrel before you apply the next coat of LMF.

You can use acetone, lacquer thinner, disk brake cleaner or denatured alcohol.
Pay special attention to the areas that aren't browning well and handle the barrel using rubber or clean cotton gloves.