I intend to buy my first flintlock (used) and have, among a lot much less desirable guns, found an Antoni Zoli 1803 Harpers Ferry .58 (I know about the caliber issue..) and Dixie Tenn. Mtn Rifle .50 (percusission with conversion parts). I know from reading here and elsewhere about the not so good sparking abilities on the Zoli but have read somewhere about redesigning the cock to a better shape as a remedy. The Zoli is shorter than the Dixie which I think might be good as I
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Decision about first flinter
- Thread starter K9_75
- Start date
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Russ T Frizzen
70 Cal.
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Often, if you can only have one gun, a smooth bore makes sense. You can take large and small game with it and also use it for birds. You can find used ones for pretty low prices--Track of the Wolf has a Jackie Brown Carolina fowler for a low price. Of the rifles you mention I think I'd pick the Dixie as everyone I've ever known that had one swore by it.
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My Dad bought one of the Zoli .58s in the 70s. He enjoyed shooting it for years. Us kids, friends and cousins got to shoot it off the picnic table at family cookouts on the Fourth of July and such. His target load with that rifle was 90 grains 2f and .570 ball. Wish I had that rifle today.
K9_75,
Lets see here....
A flint-lock smooth-bore to use for.....? Hunting? (Norway??), plinking?,target??
I dont know if you are living in a country that makes it difficult to get a replica-weapon permit (like for me in Sweden). If so, dont forget the possibility to get an original that bets the Brown Bess-replica both in price and quality. :imo:
ARILAR :: :thumbsup:
Lets see here....
A flint-lock smooth-bore to use for.....? Hunting? (Norway??), plinking?,target??
I dont know if you are living in a country that makes it difficult to get a replica-weapon permit (like for me in Sweden). If so, dont forget the possibility to get an original that bets the Brown Bess-replica both in price and quality. :imo:
ARILAR :: :thumbsup:
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I have a Zoli 1803. It is a fine shooter, not competition quality, but hunting accurate. I will caution you though. Good Zoli barrels are not the norm. A friend and I ordered at the same time in 1977 0r so, from Dixie Gun Works. On sale for 125.oo. Mine shot great, and his bore was so ragged he reamed it out for smooth bore use. Lucky me that time.
The locks are not that bad as I hear. I was able to just slick mine up. The frizzen did go soft after a time and I resoled it. As far as reliability, mine is.
As much as I like mine, I cannot recommend them unless you can look it over real well, inside and out, and maybe try before you buy.
The locks are not that bad as I hear. I was able to just slick mine up. The frizzen did go soft after a time and I resoled it. As far as reliability, mine is.
As much as I like mine, I cannot recommend them unless you can look it over real well, inside and out, and maybe try before you buy.
K9_75,
I have read your post more than once and I'm ::. Are you permitted to hunt with a M/L
or not if not you are surely missing a great part of
the B/P experience.
K9_75,
Please correct me if i am wrong but does
not your country have some of the most liberal laws in
the world on drugs, sex and money but can't hunt with
a M/L. Go Figure!!!
snake-eyes :hmm:
I have read your post more than once and I'm ::. Are you permitted to hunt with a M/L
or not if not you are surely missing a great part of
the B/P experience.
K9_75,
Please correct me if i am wrong but does
not your country have some of the most liberal laws in
the world on drugs, sex and money but can't hunt with
a M/L. Go Figure!!!
snake-eyes :hmm:
:hmm: My english is that bad :redface:
Ok here's the short version:
- No hunting with M/L
- No hunting with B/P
- Liberal laws concerning guns?? What's that??!! ::
- Liberal laws concerning drugs?? No, not at all - must be a mix up with the Dutch.
Sex and money I guess is pretty liberal as long as you do not mix them!
Please rub in the salt please! If I could I would go hunting this minute with a M/L even if it were only for a crow!
Cheers
K9
Ok here's the short version:
- No hunting with M/L
- No hunting with B/P
- Liberal laws concerning guns?? What's that??!! ::
- Liberal laws concerning drugs?? No, not at all - must be a mix up with the Dutch.
Sex and money I guess is pretty liberal as long as you do not mix them!
Please rub in the salt please! If I could I would go hunting this minute with a M/L even if it were only for a crow!
Cheers
K9
K9_75: I cannot give first hand experiences with either gun as I do not own them.
I can give something to consider though.
The .58 caliber gun will be using either patched .570 diameter (14.476 mm) which weigh 277 grains, or Minie' balls which weigh from 430 grains up.
Both of these use up a lot of lead per shot.
The .50 caliber will use a .490 diameter (12.44 mm) patched ball which weighs 177 grains which is 63% less than the .570 diameter ball.
The difference put in practical terms allows you to shoot over 30 .490 diameter balls while the .570 diameter balls only allows 20 shots for the same wieght of lead.
The powder loads are also smaller with the .50 caliber gun.
The Dixie Tennessee mountain rifle is made in Japan by Miroku. I believe they also make some of the better modern rifles sold in the United States.
The rifleing grooves in this gun are .008 (.20mm) deep with a twist rate of 1:56 (inches) which should work very well with patched round ball.
Dixie Gunworks has sold this rifle sense 1978, and I would expect them to carry parts for it for years to come.
I do not have data on the Zoli 1803, but the version made by Euro Arms has .006 (.15mm) deep grooves with a twist rate of 1:66 (inches). This also should shoot patched round balls well.
Good Luck to you!
I can give something to consider though.
The .58 caliber gun will be using either patched .570 diameter (14.476 mm) which weigh 277 grains, or Minie' balls which weigh from 430 grains up.
Both of these use up a lot of lead per shot.
The .50 caliber will use a .490 diameter (12.44 mm) patched ball which weighs 177 grains which is 63% less than the .570 diameter ball.
The difference put in practical terms allows you to shoot over 30 .490 diameter balls while the .570 diameter balls only allows 20 shots for the same wieght of lead.
The powder loads are also smaller with the .50 caliber gun.
The Dixie Tennessee mountain rifle is made in Japan by Miroku. I believe they also make some of the better modern rifles sold in the United States.
The rifleing grooves in this gun are .008 (.20mm) deep with a twist rate of 1:56 (inches) which should work very well with patched round ball.
Dixie Gunworks has sold this rifle sense 1978, and I would expect them to carry parts for it for years to come.
I do not have data on the Zoli 1803, but the version made by Euro Arms has .006 (.15mm) deep grooves with a twist rate of 1:66 (inches). This also should shoot patched round balls well.
Good Luck to you!
Dixie Flinter,
I believe I have your dad's old Zoli 1803 HF. In fact, I got two of them from you several years ago. I just saw your post and I remembered that you had put a business card in the box of round balls you sent along with the rifle.
Your dad's rifle is doing well in Washington State and gets taken out quite often. Some people talk bad about them, but your dad's rifle is totally reliable. I've never had any problems with the lock. The accuracy is just fine.
Anyway, just wanted to let you know that your dad's rifle is in good hands and still doing well.
Thomas
I believe I have your dad's old Zoli 1803 HF. In fact, I got two of them from you several years ago. I just saw your post and I remembered that you had put a business card in the box of round balls you sent along with the rifle.
Your dad's rifle is doing well in Washington State and gets taken out quite often. Some people talk bad about them, but your dad's rifle is totally reliable. I've never had any problems with the lock. The accuracy is just fine.
Anyway, just wanted to let you know that your dad's rifle is in good hands and still doing well.
Thomas
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Hi Thomas-
Thanks for the update! I'm glad the .58 is being put to good use, Dad would have appreciated that :front: Have more recently gotten into flinters myself (thanks in no small way to the friendly folks at this camp : and have often thought about the Harper's Ferry rifle. Hope you enjoy it for many, many years :hatsoff:
Bob J.
P.S. My friend took his first blackpowder buck with the .54 CVA Double Rifle. He's now hooked on the "Blackpowder Way" :winking:
Thanks for the update! I'm glad the .58 is being put to good use, Dad would have appreciated that :front: Have more recently gotten into flinters myself (thanks in no small way to the friendly folks at this camp :
and have often thought about the Harper's Ferry rifle. Hope you enjoy it for many, many years :hatsoff:Bob J.
P.S. My friend took his first blackpowder buck with the .54 CVA Double Rifle. He's now hooked on the "Blackpowder Way" :winking:
Thanks everyone!
Yesterday I decided on the Dixie rifle and will send in the application for a license to the local police on Monday. The rifle as it is today is in percussision but a conversion unit is available (lock and vent for app $115). L&R are offering a replacement lock for the rifle and I'm thinking that it might be a good idea to go that route but aren't sure. I've heard of the frizzen being prone to break on the Dixie lock but also about quality problems of L&R's products. The double throated hammer on the L&R lock look good in my eyes but are it appropriate for the rifle? The L&R will be more expensive but maybe worth it? ::
Brubincam
Yes we can shoot for recreation or competition but to get a license for a M/L you have to be an active member of a M/L club. This will have to be validated by a board member of the club every time you apply for a license and there's also a very slim chance of getting fx licenses for more than one gun of each kind - 1 flintlock rifle, 1 flintlock musket, 1 percussision rifle etc. :youcrazy::curse:
Cheers
K9
L&R replacement lock
Yesterday I decided on the Dixie rifle and will send in the application for a license to the local police on Monday. The rifle as it is today is in percussision but a conversion unit is available (lock and vent for app $115). L&R are offering a replacement lock for the rifle and I'm thinking that it might be a good idea to go that route but aren't sure. I've heard of the frizzen being prone to break on the Dixie lock but also about quality problems of L&R's products. The double throated hammer on the L&R lock look good in my eyes but are it appropriate for the rifle? The L&R will be more expensive but maybe worth it? ::
Brubincam
Yes we can shoot for recreation or competition but to get a license for a M/L you have to be an active member of a M/L club. This will have to be validated by a board member of the club every time you apply for a license and there's also a very slim chance of getting fx licenses for more than one gun of each kind - 1 flintlock rifle, 1 flintlock musket, 1 percussision rifle etc. :youcrazy::curse:
Cheers
K9
L&R replacement lock
K9_75,
A good choice! Hoping to meet you and to once again be able to hold just that "Poor boy rifle" that I moved from Seattle to Stockholm in the year 1982 (oooh happy days). Its a small world after all, to find that rifle again when cruising this Forum.
ARILAR :: :thumbsup:
A good choice! Hoping to meet you and to once again be able to hold just that "Poor boy rifle" that I moved from Seattle to Stockholm in the year 1982 (oooh happy days). Its a small world after all, to find that rifle again when cruising this Forum.
ARILAR :: :thumbsup:
Blivetmaker
40 Cal.
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Let me get this straight... Sweden.. sparsley populated country... not generally known in the last 50 years for bouts with civil unrest.. worried about the firepower in the hands of private citizens due to the ownership of...(dare I say it out loud?)FLINTLOCKS???!!!
A ballpoint pen or pencil is theoretically a dangerous weapon. A dot matrix printer is theoretically an instrument for subversive propaganda. Unfortunately without such devices one finds it hard to fill out the government forms (in triplicate) pursuant to an application for a knife and fork with which a suitably trained and approved citizen might under controlled circumstances...eat.
If the folks there are happy; more power to 'em. Seems a bit overdone to me though.. :m2c:
A ballpoint pen or pencil is theoretically a dangerous weapon. A dot matrix printer is theoretically an instrument for subversive propaganda. Unfortunately without such devices one finds it hard to fill out the government forms (in triplicate) pursuant to an application for a knife and fork with which a suitably trained and approved citizen might under controlled circumstances...eat.
If the folks there are happy; more power to 'em. Seems a bit overdone to me though.. :m2c:
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