deer "hunting"

[ebiggs1]

You know been thinking about this. I have a neighbor that has 120 acres next to me. He shot a 12 point buck this season but is it really hunting? We put out feed plots, trail cameras and made sure there was water. Salt and mineral blocks, everything. The big deer came down the trail as it has for the past couple months and he shot it. Deer hunting or deer farming? :idunno:

 

[cynthialee]

deer ranching?

If it is for food, I see nothing wrong with the practice. But it certainly isn't hunting.

 

It doesn't matter what others think. If it was legal, it's nobody's business.

 

[Spikebuck]

Good question and also gets into what is "fair chase."

I'll respond from what I observed this year in an environment very similar to what you describe.

Trail cameras: Though we had many bucks showing up in the same places all summer...many even to within minutes almost every day, they all "disappeared" once velvet was shed. We shot five "trophy" sized bucks....NONE of them were where we saw them on trail cameras. Vicinity, but not in those places. Certainly bucks are patterned and shot in the same places as photographed, but it's not a "given." I look at Trail Cameras as giving you the knowledge of what kind of deer are around and not necessarily getting you a specific deer, though they certainly can aid in that.

Food Plots: What I witnessed it that crops like clover, corn, and beans pretty much received "normal" activity just as if they were a crop field. Around my area, those are the primary crops. However, we planted some brassica plots and those are almost like bait. A good number of the deer left all the other plots and literally trampled the brassica plots in broad daylight. These plants must be like cocaine or something to deer. I was truly amazed at the attracting power they had, even for larger bucks in daylight hours. That said, one of five was shot in a brassica field. The others were elsewhere and not on trails leading to the those plots.

Mineral licks were great for getting pictures in the summer, but in September the mineral requirements drop off drastically and those are abandoned such that when season opens, they are useless...at least they were for us.

So, in net, I think "farming" or whatever one wants to call it, is different than "baiting" or hunting relatively small, high-fenced enclosures. I won't say that there aren't some advantages, but it isn't as much as even I would have imagined. It can help with deer densities, which can aid one via more opportunity, but I put in a lot of hours and I know the others in our lease did as well to get their bucks (all were bow kill).

 

[Shifty]

I know a guy that does the same thing for his kids, and I tell him that is deer killing not deer hunting, you know like on TV,I envite him to hunt where I do but he will not,when I kill one I know I have worked for it or it is just dumb luck but not legal baiting.

 

[Little Wattsy]

It doesn't matter what others think. If it was legal, it's nobody's business.

AMEN Brother!!!!

In my opinion you might lose "hunting when you add the high fence but MOST hunting involves the same practices just some use what mother nature has done instead of their own sweat and efffort.
Successfull hunters dont just sit randomly outside the city limits waiting for a critter to walk by; We look for trails, clearcuts (aka food plots), train features that funnel, etc.... Those that chose to enhance their property to replicate mother natures 10,000 acres on their personal 120 acres are just the ambitious ones who PROBABLY have worked harder to accomplish their goals then those who just wander around the woods hoping for luck...

 

[PJC]

It doesn't matter what others think. If it was legal, it's nobody's business.

I agree with this frame of thinking. In addition to this, there are many other forms of wildlife that benefit from bait or food plots.
Healthier and stronger deer, Turkey, Squirrels, and other game and non game wildlife all benefit from these activities.

Game cameras have become a recreational activity in its own right. Identification of rare or endangered wildlife in your area or property that would otherwise have gone unnoticed is a treasure or trophy all by itself.

There are many forms of hunting that I do not participate in but part of living in either Canada or the USA is the freedom to participate in any legal activity you chose to.

PJC

 

[NJ Longbeard]

A great and valid point! I call that growing the hunt. Is there anything wrong with that? Ask 100 people about it and your likely to get 100 different answers. For me its more deer farming. IS it truly QDMA to produce a healthier herd or is it trying to produce the largest set of antlers? I look at the situation you described above like this. Take A mens body building contest for instance, the winner of the contest has won by a large margin over 2nd place. Months later it was discovered that the winner had used steroids to enhance his physic , but the 2nd place guy achieved his physic strictly naturally through genetics and proper diet and hard training with out the use of supplements. I'm a traditionalist for the most part.So I guess what I'm trying to say is it turly fair to compare some of the modern day monster bucks that have been farmed and harvested to lets say the Jordan buck of 1914 that held the world record for so long, free roaming, yes eat in farmers fields, but no trail cams used to tell Mr.Jordan where and when to be on stand. Deer supplements, trail cams, etc. do produce results no doubt about it , it's also a multi million dollar business too. I would guess in my HO that very very few of us including myself hunt like the Benoit boys do. :idunno:

 

[Chris Hayes]

What about all the hours and hours I spend behind the wheel and the glass looking at deer and patterning them. Someone tell me where that fits in :stir: :stir: :stir: :stir: :stir:

 

[Moose Guide]

Well, I guess we will just have to get some hero badges made up for the "real" hunters!!!! Whats next, "I'm better because I only hunt public land"? Or how about "I'm a real hunter because I only shoot bucks"? How about leaving the divide and conquer tactics to the anti hunters and just support "legal" hunters.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I hunt on my own 20 acres. No feed plots, no fences.

"Sheer luck" is the method I rely on.

 

[Spikebuck]

Oh Stumpkiller. With the success you have I hardly believe it's all just plain ol' luck! There's always a little, but a good hunter makes luck happen through knowledge and preparation. You're too modest. :v

 

[hanshi]

I guess it comes down to being an individual thing.

 

[wvbuckbuster]

I have been hunting the same family farm for the last 46 years and this year I put up a trail camera close to a feeder to see what would show up. There were 6 bucks from spikes to a nice,even 6pt on the camera. One of the spikes was killed in the area of the feeder. Not one of the other bucks were killed or seen on the farm during the buck season. There were 2 bucks killed that were not seen on the camera, a 4pt. and and 8pt. They had never been seen before the season started by anyone. It was intresting to see what would show up on camera but it wasn't something I would base my hunting on. Dan.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Oh Stumpkiller. With the success you have I hardly believe it's all just plain ol' luck! There's always a little, but a good hunter makes luck happen through knowledge and preparation. You're too modest. :v

Thank you. I practice a lot (I shoot my recurve bow every day); and that helps turn opportunity into success. Luck favors the prepared.

For me it boils down to three things:

Knowing where the deer are.

Knowing when they may be there.

Paying attention to the wind.


I put myself in the "high likelyhood" spots and keep quiet and as motionless as possible. I also spend as much time as possible in the woods whether the conditions are favorable or not. 41 deer in 32 years shows that putting in your time and being ready pays off. ;-)

 

[broknaero]

I like to hunt the old apple trees down by the creek on my land. I guess it was an old orchard 100 years ago or more. Huge old trees. A little pruning and fertilizing and they rain down the apples. More than I can eat on my own, so it's a great food source for the animals. Draws in the deer and bear too in archery season. I don't feel guilty hunting that area anymore than I do hunting the oak flats out back on the public land. Or the steep thick briars in between on my own land, or my neighbors corn feild (with permission).

I believe that is part of hunting, recognising your prey's food sources and patterns. I also feel it's better to harvest deer and bear around my neighbors farm and use the meat rather than him shoot them all for crop damage and leave them to waste. Not everyone lives in the great wilderness that we all disire. Here in Pa its hard to go 2 miles without crossing a road. It's a fine line to hunt in a natural way, yet still help out our non hunting neighboring farmers.

As long as it's legal to each his own. Enjoy your hunts for what they are. Harvesting game is the best way to keep a population balance, and provide a natural food to you and your family, or another family that can use the meat.

Merry Christmas

 

[Loyalist Dave]

All the game cameras and food plots in the world don't help you when the deer choose to eat and have their pictures taken after sundown or before dawn.

Nothing is done on the farm where I hunt to attract the deer, and the area is surrounded by horse farms, single family homes, a dairy farm and a Christmas Tree farm. Yet the buck that I got this year was full of fresh eaten corn.

As far as "real" hunting, unless you are in some huge national forest or BLM lands, and your quarry has very very limited contact with humans or human action (such as human crops), the deer are less than "wild", by some folks standards.

Then you have DNR biologists who say the deer herds in many places are larger than when Columbus made "contact" as the deer stopped being a primary food and leather source, so is ANY of it "real" hunting when the numbers are so large to vastly increase the chances of an encounter, regardless of the use of food or lures? Not to mention that the human populations are so much larger and so widespread how do you really find a "wild" deer?

Finally, to those critics..., How do you know it isn't really hunting? Since we have established that true wild deer are very rare, no matter how you do your hunt, you have probably not really hunted a wild deer, so you have no basis in actual experience upon which to support the claim of who has and who has not really "hunted".

One cannot argue, for example, that a deer (which are curious creatures) when encountering a human's bark hut for the first time didn't creep up out of curiosity, and took a stone point from a bow being shot from within the structure..., the paleolithic version of this chap.

LD

 

[ebiggs1]

All the opinions are interesting. What if it were a 12 acre farm instead of 120, would that clarify the issue? Or perhaps a 2 acre plot? Does that change the opinion any?
I am not criticizing the practice because all the game laws were strictly observed. But another factor is, I was over there one afternoon when another neighbor came up and asked for permission to “hunt” and the answer was, no! He told the guy he had put all this work and money into the deer on his place and was not going to let anyone else hunt them. Sounds like deer farming to me. But, I don't know, it's his place and he can do whatever he wants with it. :idunno:

 

[Little Wattsy]

All the opinions are interesting. What if it were a 12 acre farm instead of 120, would that clarify the issue? Or perhaps a 2 acre plot? Does that change the opinion any?
I am not criticizing the practice because all the game laws were strictly observed. But another factor is, I was over there one afternoon when another neighbor came up and asked for permission to “hunt” and the answer was, no! He told the guy he had put all this work and money into the deer on his place and was not going to let anyone else hunt them. Sounds like deer farming to me. But, I don't know, it's his place and he can do whatever he wants with it. :idunno:

Dosnt cahnge much to ME... Maybe the word "fishing" ought to be used, trying to lure deer onto your dirt to be hunted but it takes work, skill, and ability. the deer can decide wheather you have done a good job or not, they are NOT a captive audience... :wink:
As for your example of the guy who didnt allow hunters, I might be the same way with OUT any deer feeders, food plots, etc just to have a nice quite, un-pressured hunt... :hmm:

 

[Spikebuck]

It would only change my response if it were small like that and high-fenced. Otherwise the animals are completely free to come and go as they please.

Not sure at what point a high-fenced place becomes "fair chase"....maybe a 1000 acres. :stir: