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n8dawg6

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i was just perusing toby bridges' website[url] www.hpmuzzleloading.com[/url], and he has some statistics for muzzleloading hunters in 2005. now, i'm not sure where he got these statistics, so i wont vouch for their veracity.

he picked ten states: michigan, oklahoma, virginia, kentucky, ohio, new york, mississippi, west virginia, tennessee, and pennsylvania. of the approx 1.6 million blackpowder hunters in those states, he found that "more than 85-percent of them are hunting with a very modern in-line ignition muzzle-loaded rifle, loaded with an equally modern charge of black powder substitute and either a saboted bullet or a modern bullet with a plastic gas check/seal." he also found that "[t]oday, the traditionally minded muzzleloading hunter makes up only about 5- to 6-percent of all muzzleloading hunters in the U.S."
at the same time, it appears that muzzleloader sales have peaked out, and technology has done about all it can do for muzzleloaders without going to smokeless powder. and to top it all off: "Today, only about 5-percent of all muzzleloading shooters and hunters in the country still rely on real black powder."

thoughts? comments? cries of outrage, or agreement?

i guess one thing that has come to my mind recently is, well, i wonder if the days of the 209 primered, blackpowder sub-shooting muzzleloader are numbered already? i mean, if we go on to smokeless, who's gonna want the blackpowder-sub rifles anymore? and after we go on to smokeless . . . well who the heck wants to have to load it from the muzzle? i guess the line has to be drawn somewhere, and im just curious as to where it will be drawn.

my greatest lament is that people still have an infantile view of traditional muzzleloading. just the other day, someone was extolling to me the joys of his new inline muzzleloader, and how he now didnt have to worry about his gun "blowing up" when he shot it. my sidelocks have always worked great. dont get me wrong, i'm a believer in the free market system, and people buy what they want. i just feel like a lot of folks are in the dark about traditional muzzleloading. they should give it a try. :grin:

also, it's not my intention for this post to be a tirade against inlines. i own one, and it's a fine rifle, albeit discontinued and technically obsolete these days (how ironic). but i'd hate to see fine mass-produced american-made inline rifles be the death of any chance to have a fine mass-produced american-made traditional muzzleloader. oops, already too late? :(
 
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I suspect the modern ML tging has peaked, and an increase in Traditional guns will begin, historicaly comon sense, the truth and logic can only be hidden, ignored, or disguised for so long.
 
I agree. We should look at all those in-line shooters are possible new recruits to traditional, side action muzzle loading rifles. ( Okay, underhammer actions, too.) Once you get guys limiting their hunting experience to shooting one shot, and loading stuff down the muzzle, it seems to me they are more likely to be interested in learning how to use a traditional action. Sign them up.
 
I hunt in WV, I would say that over half of the hunters I know hunt with a sidelock in muzzleloading season. But the WV hunters that hunt in Ohio, most use a inline.

The sidelocks are coming back. Some of the guys that started out with a inlines want to try a sidelock, got hooked by the bug. :hatsoff:
 
It's the same with archery as well. Last year X- Bows were all the rage as well as compounds. It got so you had to work hard to find any "traditional" stuff in Houston. Now the pendulum has started to swing the other direction. I was told by a guy at Gander mountain that the most in demand bow was the serengeti by martin. They also are stocking T/C side locks. It is a fad that's all.
 
I'm not suprised at all, and I don't think inlines are going away. They are easy to shoot, cheap to buy, and deadly accurate.
 
Toby Bridges is an idiot with an agenda. He's promoting what ever agenda of what ever company he's currently being paid by. I hold all of his uninformed blather suspect. :yakyak:
From my end of the market, there is no lack of interest in traditional guns.
 
Mike Brooks said:
Toby Bridges is an idiot with an agenda. He's promoting what ever agenda of what ever company he's currently being paid by. I hold all of his uninformed blather suspect. :yakyak:
From my end of the market, there is no lack of interest in traditional guns.

isnt it interesting that he used to tote a traditional muzzleloader back in the day? then when the knight craze came along, he jumped on board with them. then when the savage smokeless came along, he abandoned ship with knight and hopped onboard with savage. now he has abandoned savage and is doing his own "high performance muzzleloading" thing . . . whatever THAT is.
 
3 stinky dogs said:
It's the same with archery as well. Last year X- Bows were all the rage as well as compounds. It got so you had to work hard to find any "traditional" stuff in Houston. Now the pendulum has started to swing the other direction. I was told by a guy at Gander mountain that the most in demand bow was the serengeti by martin. They also are stocking T/C side locks. It is a fad that's all.

this is exactly what i'm hoping to see. i shoot traditional archery as well, and it has seen a huge resurgence in the last 5-10 yrs or so. hopefully traditional muzzleloading will have the same sort of rebound.
 
Look how it was with CAS. I wonder if any of that crowed will want to or has delved deeper into history and developed the desire to go all the way ? Heck maby all of the sudden demand will over come the manufacturers means to produce guns and guy's like Mike brooks will become STINKING RICH !!!! :rotf:
 
I also recently spoke with an aquaintance and tried to share my newfound enjoyment of building my own gun and casting my own balls. He laughed a little derisively and said he would never shoot a sidelock when he could make one-inch groups at 100 yards with his inline. To him, it seemed the technology factor was more important. Ironically enough, he was more excited about taking a deer with a bow (a weapon far older than the muzzleloader) than with a gun. :confused:
 
The latest edition of American Hunter from the NRA had an interesting article about how to draw an elk tag in Colorado. They listed a fall back position of putting in for a muzzleloader tag because in their view, you would have just as good a chance of filling your tag with a scoped in-line as you would using a .300 Winchester. Don't have the article here in front of me, but will post the exact quote when I get home. When the NRA is putting that stuff out, its no surprise you're gonna see in-line use go up.
 
I recently read an article in (I think) Deer and Deer Hunting where (I'm pretty sure it was) Toby was grading states on their muzzleloader seasons.
A state had to allow in-lines, scopes, powder subs and saboted pistol bullets to pass.
The article was all indignant about these things not being allowed in some states. Claimed that states that don't allow them are borderline unethical for not allowing the most efficient means of killing a deer.
I think I'll write them a letter and TRY to explain that the muzzleloading season is not about killing the most deer at the longest ranges. It is supposed to be about the challenge of getting close to the game and taking a deer with a PRIMITIVE weapon. Otherwise there wouldn't even be a special muzzleloader season.
 
jethro224 said:
I recently read an article in (I think) Deer and Deer Hunting where (I'm pretty sure it was) Toby was grading states on their muzzleloader seasons.
A state had to allow in-lines, scopes, powder subs and saboted pistol bullets to pass.
The article was all indignant about these things not being allowed in some states. Claimed that states that don't allow them are borderline unethical for not allowing the most efficient means of killing a deer.
I think I'll write them a letter and TRY to explain that the muzzleloading season is not about killing the most deer at the longest ranges. It is supposed to be about the challenge of getting close to the game and taking a deer with a PRIMITIVE weapon. Otherwise there wouldn't even be a special muzzleloader season.
I read the same article in D&DH...I was disgusted by it and tried to find a contact on the D&DH website to send a hot Email to D&DH but was not successful...it's all about money, not character or morals...people do it all the time...example: Knight's inline poster boy Jim Shockey is now TC's inline Poster Boy...
 
At the local range I have yet to see anyone shoot a scoped inline inside of an 18" circle at 100 yards. :shake:
When I started a black powder shoot for the club all the inline crowd wanted to know if they could bring their scoped inline guins down and compete . I said sure bring it on. They got smoked by the flint shooters and never came back again. Unless these guys had a rest off of a post , the bench, or were in the sitting position, they couldn't hit the broad side of the barn. Since my matches are strictly off hand, these guys couldn't compete.
You wouldn't believe the cheating these guys tried with leaning on stuff claiming they wern't, and were shooting off hand....pathetic.... :shake:
 
Lack of practice and a scope ads weight to a gun. it would stink to get out shot by "primitive"weapons.
 
Mike Same thing here the open sites and the muzzleloaders that shoot offhand have been outshooting the scope shooters for years. Seems they all need a benchrest to hit any thing as small as the muzzleloaders consider normal size targets. They never learned to shoot standing up.
Fox :thumbsup:
 
As long as I can get relatively inexpensive blackpowder through the mail I don't care if their choice of hunting muzzleloader is an 81mm morter, so long as it is a legal hunting implement as defined by the state regulations.

What "they" do is their business.

I'll be happy being an "elitist snob with a flintlock" and go my own way.
 
:) Mike and stump. I founded the Sauk trail Longrifles in 1963 In Jonesville Mi. The first thing that came up was the musket thing. Our attitude was ,if they get too darnd good ,we will outlaw them. We had no problems ,they couldnt hit a clay pigeon glued to a white backer at 100 yds. Never see a musket there today ,same guys ,no muskets . These things go around in lopsided circles.
 
Toby Bridges :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
 
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