disturbing statistics?

[CrackStock]

 

[HistoryBuff]

Here is another article on the same page: http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/legislation.html

Apparently, we are a dishonest, unethical bunch.

HistoryBuff

 

[n8dawg6]

Here is another article on the same page: http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/legislation.html

Apparently, we are a dishonest, unethical bunch.

HistoryBuff

ah yes, i just read that article. apparently if you do not use a scope, the implication is that you are "STUPID" and "UNETHICAL." :yakyak: and there's no good reason for not allowing scopes. :bull: and, oh yes, the words "stupid" and "unethical" will be in all-caps, meaning you're REALLY stupid and unethical. :yakyak:

i guess there's no possibility that scopes don't really make you more accurate, they just give you a little more range, eh? :hmm: and there's DEFINITELY no possibility that scopes will cause people to take shots outside the range of their rifles that they ordinarily wouldnt feel comfortable with in the abscense of a scope? :hmm:

 

[tg]

I have always felt that if one wanted to use a scope, peep or conical that is a replica of something from the pre-carteidge era that would be cool same as an original "in-line" replica, I wish some one would build the final stage of modern ML, a straight cased cartridge with a over size bulled the would go down from the muzzleengaing the rifling and a bolt acton breech that would only open enough to REMOVE the spent case, and then try to justify it as being differsnt than a modern gun just because it loads from the front.This might open some eyes to the truth of the modern ML.

 

[bigbore442001]

In a way the statistics don't surprise me. When you look at the magazines and hunting shows, the modern muzzleloaders dominate the scene. So this trend is following the promotions.

Keep in mind that a lot of hunters aren't die hard traditionalists. When muzzleloader seasons first started, hunters wanting greater opportunity to take game entered into the sport. In a way it is the same, with changes in technology, the majority of hunters have followed suit.

 

[HistoryBuff]

Here are some thougts:

A quote from the article: "Have you ever been driving across one of the Great Plains states, or much of the West for that matter, and really had to relieve yourself? If you have, then you've already noticed how far and few between trees or decent cover can be. Now, think about just how hard it can be to get within the 100-yard "open-sight" range of a pronghorn, mule deer, whitetail or elk in this open country."

Perhaps my history lessons left me terribly misinformed, but I think that before white folks reached the plains and brought guns and horses with them, there were people living there called plains indians. I guess the Indians starved. :hmm:

And being HONEST would involve admitting that in-lines are simply a means of sidestepping a law.

But I'm not sure about taking the fight to state game boards. I can see the counterstroke by the in-line folks; they will lobby Congress saying that there is a big loophole in the law that allows criminals and other types to purchase large quantities of dangerous, explosive black powder. They will be believed, we will not. And that will be the end of the discussion. Perhaps this should be fought way below the radar by getting people interested in shooting traditional guns, not by ending or restricting the in-line seasons. Just my two-cents.

HistoryBuff

 

[graybeard]

I'm afraid Toby's mistaken about Michigan. I've hunted with a traditional sidelock for many years in our special season and have seen one in-line. Seems Toby doesn't trust his in-line buddies to be real hunters and pass up shots beyond their range. I wish Michigan would give us a true traditional season, but I guess they're afraid Toby would call them names. :cursing: graybeard

 

[Legionair]

Seems to me, if at most blackpowder was 5% of all propellant sales--- wouldn't goex and others have dropped real BP as unprofitable years ago?!?!

Legion

 

[chuck-ia]

Now that really gets my blood pressure up. These modern muzzleloading guys just don't get it. They are more concerned about how far a shot, than how close you can get to the[url] animal.In[/url] my oppinion, muzzleloading is not supposed to be easy. I love to get to the range and work up a load, may take a few months. Not so with modern muzzleloading. This guy want every state to allow scopes, now scopes (to me) just don't belong on a trad muzzleloader. Sure, they were using scopes on some of the early perc. muzzleloaders, but those scopes are not anything what they use on inlines. If these modern muzzleloading people are so concerned about using scopes, pellets, modern sabots, and such, why not just hunt the regular gun seasons? In my area, they started the muzzleloading seasons for traditional hunters, percussion or flintlock rifles, look what it has become now. I wonder how many of these modern muzzleloader hunters shoot throughout the year? Not many around here. If they shoot at all it is a week before season. Heck, I know of one ( ex brother in law) that last year went out during season to sight in his gun, and to get his 16 year olds sons gun sighted in also. Turns out after the second shot the dad shot his ramrod down range, (can happen to anyone) and the 16 year old got a ball stuck halfway down the barrel, brought it over on Christmas and we got the ball out and the gun all cleaned up. I guess to sum it all up, modern muzzleloading people just aren't as serious as traditional folk when it comes to muzzleloading. But they want everything their way. My oppinion is, I think muzzleloading seasons should require a patched round ball, now wouldn't that stir things up? flinch

 

[roundball]

Here is another article on the same page: http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/legislation.html

Apparently, we are a dishonest, unethical bunch.

HistoryBuff

Thanks for posting the link...FWIW, I fired off a strong but objective Email to them.

 

[chuck-ia]

pretty upsetting stuff. stating about old eyes not being to take a 100 yard shot with open sights, you should be able to use a scope. flinch

 

[n8dawg6]

Perhaps my history lessons left me terribly misinformed, but I think that before white folks reached the plains and brought guns and horses with them, there were people living there called plains indians. I guess the Indians starved. :hmm:

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[HistoryBuff]

Here is another good one: http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/Books3.html

And a quote: "The Godfather of muzzleloaders, Toby Bridges,"

I'm sorry. I can't get enough of the comedy show. I'm ROTFLMAO :rotf:

HistoryBuff

 

[TANSTAAFL]

It bothers me not in the least that I am in a distinct sub minority of a minority. I do, and have done, the side lock hunting gambit for decades, never hunted in a ML season, could care less if there is one or not, I get my hunting pleasures in the general.

This small traditional sub culture of ours embraces many facets as to time frames, equipment and personas, and that is just the way I like it.

I dabble around in the Rocky Mountain fur trade, F&I & early New Mexican eras, and enjoy them all equally. I will shortly be building up a patilla style Spanish Miquelet lock ((llava española) escopeta smoothbore, also considering getting myself a matchlock some day.

 

[Stumpkiller]

The open country of the Great Plains and the West often means having to take shots closer to 200 yards - and muzzleloading hunters are taking those shots, scope or no scope.

So, since idiots are going to take the shots anyway the logic follows that we should give them scopes? Wouldn't it be easier to just declare .300 Winchesters "muzzleloaders" so they can use them? :haha: So they can take the 350 yard shots they'll be bound to try with scopes. :shake:

Ban conicals during special m/l seasons and the in-line issue will disappear. :grin:

 

[tg]

I read the pages and did find one statement that I did agree with, everything else was bunk aimed at the promotion of high tech gear useage and has little to do with true ML hunting .I will post the quote that I did find to be very relevant and in need of pursuing


"Remember...Sensible Muzzleloading Regulations Are Worth Fighting For!"

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Harry M. Pope thought that loading bullets for cartridge guns from the muzzle for best accuracy was the only way to go, so, he went.

 

[Rebel]

Not sure if i will get a reply to it or not, but i just sent this e-mail to Mr. Rick O'Shea.

"Rick O;Shea, so you must be another no nothing, sold my soul to the highest bidder, muzzleloader wann-be like Toby Bridges, right. That or you just don't care anything at all about WHY special muzzleloader seasons were implemented. Traditional muzzleloader hunters spent a lot of time and effort getting those seasons put into effect so that we could hunt with the Traditional guns of our ancestors, not some plastic stocked, scope sighted, inline piece of manure, that has noting at all in common with a real, Traditional muzzleloader. You and Bridges sell this garbage of yours to the highest bidder, and then try to force it down the throats of those of us who have no interest in your slanted views whatsoever. You accuse us of being dumb and unethical. Well look in the mirror buddy if you want to see unetical and dumb, because only a real fool with no real pride or no real ability as a hunter would spew this manure, and maybe even beliieve it. You and others like you are really pathetic. You try to force the states to allow those plastic spaceguns in the special muzzleloader seasons, when they have no business being used in anything but the regular rifle season. You make me sick, but also proud that i, and others like me, are still man enough to hunt the seasons in the spirit they were intended.
Rod Kenton"

Wish i were more elaborate with words like some of you others here.

 

[HistoryBuff]

Nevermind, O'Shea beat me to the punch:

"Now, I'll share one of my predictions. In the not so distant future, the vast majority of muzzleloading hunters will grow weary of traditionally oriented regulations and will begin to demand that game departments closely scrutinize the effectiveness of old-style rifles and round ball loads. A few states have already established minimum acceptable energy levels for modern center-fire rifles and cartridge handguns. So, it isn't beyond the realm of reality for some departments to begin establishing minimum allowable energy levels for a muzzle-loaded rifle and load to be used on big game. And if any game department required just 800 foot-pounds of energy at 100 yards, which should be considered minimum, not many round ball rifles and loads would make the cut.
"

Slightly different tactic, but y'all see where this is going. Here's the link: http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/update.html

HistoryBuff

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Inline ML seasons for the states that have them is all about the $$$$, special tags, special license etc, etc, etc. In short, if it is a positive revenue getter for the politicians, you ain't gonna get rid of it.

But, the inliner aficionados just might wind up being too cute by half. Someday the liberals will be back in power, (if they are not already so in some states) and someone or group is going to say; hey, with these modern inline muzzleloaders, who needs to have cartridge guns for hunting?