Do you favor CharleVille or Brown Bess and Why?

[peashooterJoe]

I was looking at the two and wanted good honest input. Want to turkey turkey hunt with either of them. Thanks PeashooterJoe..

 

[Maestro]

One consideration is that the barrels on the French muskets, with the barrel bands, are much more convenient to remove than the Bess barrels, which are pinned. On the other hand, the Bess is .75 cal. whereby the French muskets are generally .69 cal. You could certainly develop a "turkey" load for either, though. :hatsoff:

(BTW, not all French muskets are "Charleville's" - mine's a "St. Etienne". :winking: )

 

[Mike Brooks]

The old Navy Arms Charleville had so little drop I couldn't get down on the stock far enough to shoot it.

 

[nj1639]

The old Navy Arms Charleville had so little drop I couldn't get down on the stock far enough to shoot it.

My sentiments also.

 

[peashooterJoe]

Was looking at the 1777 models with the cheek rest cutout. I had already thought about the ease of barrel removal is a plus. The Bess being in a .75 is a plus also.

 

[Homesteader]

Can't speak to the Charleville, never having shot one. They sure are pretty, though. I do have a Bess, and love it. It's actually one of my favorite smokepoles. Maybe the favorite. Super versatile, handles better than I would've thought, and I can load it up for anything. I've even tried using wads of grass and leaves. (Just for grins.) I do believe you could shoot rocks out of a Bess and still do okay! And I've only had one flash in the pan, ever. And that was pure operator error. I can see why that beautiful Brown Bess lasted over a century in real service.

Just MHO, of course.

 

[wallgunner]

I built a 1728 French Musket TRS kit about 12 years ago, and I think for a military musket, you can do no better. The stocks have more drop and style than the latter French muskets. Easy to sight, and handle. It would work fine for turkeys. They make some mass produced ones now, but they are nothing like the TRS parts. If you can afford it, and have the patience of a saint, it would be a great choice.

 

[Wes/Tex]

I have owned and shot both muskets and have generally favored the French guns for ease of disassembly. Makes barrel scrubbing a lot simplier to take it with you into the shower! :rotf:

Granted, the bore diameter on the Bess is a bit larger but paper shot cups with thick enough paper will hold patterns beyond 35 yards. Good luck with whichever you choose.

 

[Tumblernotch]

I bought the Charleville mostly because it was the arm that our Springfield muskets were patterned from. When I bought it, I had the choice of it or a Bess for the same price. I really like the Bess too though. The advantage of barrel bands is obvious as far as dismounting the barrel though I rarely do. As for shooting ball ammunition, the recoil and lead savings are a little better in the French musket while the Bess may have a little advantage as a shotgun being closer to a 12 ga. compared to the .69/16 ga. I guess it depends on your taste and what you're comfortable with. Also, the Charleville's barrel is 2 3/4 inches longer. My shot load is 75 grs. of ffg under a 1/8" powder card, a 14 ga. fibreboard cushion wad and 1 oz. of either #8 or #5 chilled shot topped with a split powder card. I use the #8 for trap shooting and the #5 for squirrels. A 1 1/8 oz. load does pretty good, especially with the #5 shot. I like the 1 oz. for trap. I get more velocity without needing more powder and still get a fairly dense pattern. I haven't used any heavier shot so I can't help with a turkey load. I've used heavier charges and more shot, but I tended to get sizeable holes in my patterns. These loads pattern well out to 35 yds. but spread considerably at 40. Heavier shot with a proper charge may do better, but then again, we're talking cylinder bore. The Bess may have the advantage on longer shots. A friend of mine has done pretty good with his but I don't have any figures. Either gun will do a good job. You mentioned getting the M1777 with the cutout cheekpiece. That's not a bad idea. I've handled some of those and they are definitely more comfortable to aim and if using as a shotgun will come to the shoulder quicker if wing or clay shooting. I can aim mine (M1763/66) easily but the comb tends to bang into my cheek pretty hard. And a couple of other things, the Bess has a smaller sight than the Charleville. Mine has a rather large brass blob sight that is easier to see. And the Bess, not having the barrel bands will feel more like a shotgun when sighting. If you're not used to barrel bands they may distract you and you will definitely notice them. But after a little while you won't pay any attention to it.
:thumbsup:

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

The 1763 Charleville has a shorter trigger pull and very little drop. Don't know about the 1777. The Pedersoli Bess was more comfortable to shoot. As far as cleaning goes, who pulls the barrels every time they clean? Plug up the flash hole of the Bess and pour the filth out.

.69 caliber or .75 caliber won't matter much. Pick the one that points the best for you.

 

[Tumblernotch]

I agree. My Charleville's trigger pull is shorter than I would like. It handles better in cold weather when I'm wearing a lot of clothes. If I remember right the M1777 has a longer buttstock and with the cheek cut-out is more comfortable. And the last time I checked it was considerably more expensive than the earlier model.

The best thing for a feller to do is to handle both and see what is the most comfortable to shoot. Ballistically, either will do what is needed once he gets a suitable load figured out.

 

[Parzifal]

Hi Joe...
1st of all good post!
I have A 1st modle longland bess that shoots well,and is purdy as a bell going to the ball.
Also I have recently sent for a bess carbine kit.

But I REALLY love the look of the steel mounted 1766 charlesville " flat steel pan"..
Never handled one, but really like the look of em.
Seems the yanks really held their own with them toe to toe with the kings men.

 

[spudnut]

Bess!!!!!! what a massive piece of shoulder artilery.I love the lines and grace of the piece Charly's are nice but the stock is too straight though for what it was made for it is very utilitarian,after all with a bayonett it's a spear that shoots lead and not meant as a hunting, sporting arm(The bess too)But Bess seems to me a graceful work of art...JMHO...Mark

 

[Juice Jaws]

BROWN BESS-----its lot lighter than the French gun plus its not a French Gun------ :rotf:

 

[marmot]

I've owned and fired the Bess, '63 and '77 Charlevilles. I agree with other writers that the repro '63 Charlevilles have very little stock drop, though mine throws and excellent shot pattern... when I'm willing to take the recoil on the cheek bone. The '77 with the cheek cutout... well, it pointed fine, didn't beat my cheek when I fired it, and really wasn't bad... but it always felt a little odd, and I let it go. The Bess is a Ped. repro, and I love everything about it! Reliable, throws a nice load of lead, either shot or RB, and points like it has an internal guidence system that lines it up right every time (at least for my body shape). Yeah, I'm biased towards the Bess; it has been a great gun for me, but your best bet if possible is approach friends (and strangers too if need be!) and handle each of the guns before you make a decision. All will do the job; it's just a matter of which one fits you best.

marmot

 

[Juice Jaws]

Wes/Tex
Do you make your own paper shot cup? And if so how do you go about it. Thanks
Juice Jaws

 

[peashooterJoe]

Thanks, there has been some good points brought up. I'm leaning toward the Brown Bess after all the comments. Still mulling it over, I'm not known for impulse buying. Thanks again fellows. PeashooterJoe..

 

[Wes/Tex]

Wes/Tex
Do you make your own paper shot cup? And if so how do you go about it. Thanks
Juice Jaws

I use 3"X5" notecards instead of the Post-its and other thinner paper some use. All you need is a wooden dowel, cards, and quick-dry, contact glue. You'll have to experiment a bit with the dowel diameter to get a cup outer diameter for your barrel. The cup should slide into the muzzle without binding all the way down. You'll also need to experiment a bit to get cup width so that the paper goes all the way around and just short (about 1/8") of touching the starting edge. The cup needs to be able to expand and split along that one-layer thickness. After the tube is dry from contact push the end of the tube about 1/2" past the end of the dowel, fold shut like a penny role and press down to set the fold. I use about 2" length of tube but yours will need to be long enough for the shot charge you're using. You'll also need to have about another 1/2" at the other end to fold like the original end. Do NOT glue the ends, just fold and press with enough effort to set both ends.

I carry mine in a small wooden box wide enough for the tube to fit and keep the ends shut. Load over two cards with a card above. Has a good range but is a bit tough on close stationary targets...back off or the limb chicken won't be fit for much but gravy making!! :rotf: