Do you REALLY hunt??

[Claude Mathis]

Let's keep this about muzzleloading.

 

[traditional man]

OK, sounds good. I seen the .223 and the .22 come up.

Thanks

 

[Supercracker]

my fault I guess.

sorry :slap:

 

[blackpowderscout]

Don't worry Shane. It happens.

I still remember that morning we were in that creek bottom not what, 60yrds apart? And we both killed a fine deer each while hunting on the ground, with flintlocks. And neither one went very far. Good times!

 

[Little Wattsy]

MAYBE the problem is thinking of pigs and dog-sized deer as "game"? :hmm: :idunno:

:wink: :grin:

 

[Shine]

Here Claude :grin:

 

[blackpowderscout]

Well, I've never owned too many 120 lb+ dogs so I'm not sure what to say. No we don't have elk, but Florida is a haven for non-native species. We have pigs, pythons, brazilian pepper trees, pacus, placostemus's, yankees, starbucks...who knows, maybe the all mighty small round ball stopping wapiti will come here too.

 

[hanshi]

"Do you hunt"?



Yes! Don't believe it? Just look at the number of tin cans I've harvested in the past three years as opposed to the number of deer. :redface:

 

[traditional man]

Here Claude :grin:

Love the pictures... It is great to be Native. Some folks just hunt, fish and trap to survive. Tough buying milk at $14.75 a gallon and gas at $9.75.

 

[Supercracker]

No we don't have elk,

An Elk turned up once on the lease I used to be on over by Osceola.

 

[blackpowderscout]

The old Baker County lease? What a poacher haven that place was...

Where was it spotted at? I guess one of those high fence operations had hole turn up somewhere?

 

[Spikebuck]

I still maintain that shot placement is more important than caliber. Shoot a hog in the head with a .45 vs in the gut with a .62....see which one turns out better for you.

But this statement isn't what this post is about...at least not in my opinion. It assumes one cannot shoot a larger caliber with the same accuracy as a smaller caliber. It's apples and oranges and used to confuse the issue.

I think that everyone would agree that accurate shot placement is the ultimate goal. I think everyone would agree that a .22 in the brain is better than a 62 in the guts. That argument would not convince me to shoot things with "minimum" calibers because it's not equal and assumes good placement vs bad as the norm.

Yes, everyone needs to learn woodsmanship, know their personal limits, practice to shoot accurately, etc. I think what Wattsy is trying to point out and ask about is that "things" happen you didn't plan on. One cannot 100% control every situation. If one has hunted a long time and NEVER had that happen, he/she is one very lucky individual...or maybe specially gifted and talented. So, ALL OTHER THINGS EQUAL, do you want a "minimum" caliber/bow weight, or "more" caliber? ALL OTHER THINGS EQUAL will the larger caliber kill the animal less? ALL OTHER THINGS EQUAL if something goes wrong, is it highly probable that the larger caliber will give an edge that increases the odds for a quicker kill and recovery?

Now, just my disclaimer...I'm not talking about shooting squirrels with an elephant gun! I'm talking about a "reasonably" larger caliber for the game pursued.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Perfectly stated...

 

[blackpowderscout]

I fully understand. I and I still believe, from experience, that a .50 ball through the heart or lungs or spine or head kills just as dead as something bigger going through the same thing.

If you don't manage to hit something vital, it matters not.

I have made bad shots. Sure have, no doubt. But the size of the ball coming out of the barrel made no difference, neither did what the animals were doing. It was ME! Plain and simple. If I'd have made my shots, they wouldn't have got away.

So, I truly believe that the statements " it'll (the gun) do its part if you do yours", "Its just shot placemant", "A well placed .32 is better then a poorly placed .62", etc... " have plenty of merit.

 

[Danny Ross]

With out going back to see who, someone mentioned shooting a deer in the shoulder and couldn't find it. Now my question is since when is a shoulder shot a acceptable shot unless you are shooting a High Power rifle. I have seen deer shot in the shoulder using 12ga Foster Shotgun slugs and 99% of the time you will not get penetration into the chest cavity, you WILL blow up the shoulder that is about it, and it is a soft lead projectile. Shooting a deer in the shoulder on purpose is not a ideal shot unless you use a High Power rifle with a jacketed bullet. Hitting that bone, especially if it hits the spine of the shoulder blade with soft lead, a lot can happen none of it good. Yeah you might clip the back edge of the shoulder blade and get away with it where it is thin. Now I don't know where some of you learned to aim but I was ALWAYS taught to shoot behind the shoulder to go through the chest cavity where there is less resistance and you get better penetration. Maybe that is why a lot of you push for the larger calibers because you want to say you can shoot through a shoulder. A 45-50 cal is already bigger than most high power expand to and that 45-50cal roundball will expand even bigger. To me that shoulder shot is not a ideal shot especially shooting a muzzleloader and shooting a roundball. If you are hunting you do your best to take the most ethical shot you can. Yeah stuff happens that is one of the down sides to hunting and we have no control over that like a gut shot maybe because we pull the shot or a unseen twig that causes a wounding shot. Bigger maybe better but smaller will get the job done quite well. Like comparing a .308 and a 300 Win Mag. Shoot a deer or a hog where you are suppose to it is going to die, don't shoot it in the right place you wounded it no matter what the caliber. And how dead is dead when shot in the right place. DANNY

 

[Claude Mathis]

I don't get it? I asked to keep it about muzzleloading, not modern guns. I'm not sure what boats have to do with it. (sometimes I'm just slow)

Here Claude :grin:

 

[Shine]

Sorry claude got my wires crossed :idunno: Anyway they are using muzzleloaders. English sometimes is a second language here in maine. Traditional man was talking about shooting whales and caribou swimming with modern guns. I have images of it being done our style.

 

[Spikebuck]

I still believe, from experience, that a .50 ball through the heart or lungs or spine or head kills just as dead as something bigger going through the same thing.

Agree...and a 50 caliber is a fine gun for many game animals.

I have made bad shots. Sure have, no doubt. But the size of the ball coming out of the barrel made no difference.

But it can because of extra penetration and wound channel.

So, I truly believe that the statements " it'll (the gun) do its part if you do yours", "Its just shot placemant", "A well placed .32 is better then a poorly placed .62", etc... " have plenty of merit.

Yes they do...as much as a well-placed .62 is better than a poorly placed .32....because well-placed (assuming at least a minimum acceptable caliber) is always better than a bad shot. But not relevant to this particular discussion because we're talking about what happens if something unexpected/uncontrolled goes wrong. And the way it is generally used insinuates that one cannot shoot well with a large caliber, which is not necessarily truth. :v

 

[Blackbruin]

I haver used nothing but a flinter for last 2 years, harvested my fair share. Most people arent dedicated enough to use a significant amount of vacation or just choose not to, and when they have only 2 days or whatever they will take an iffy **** due to not getting another opportunity, or the reverse, those who hunt alot but hardly see anything due to not scouting, or just not wise hunters, if you have a wide open tulip polar hollow, and can see 250 yards good surrounded by oaks and laurel, hmmm lets sit in the middle of the tulip poplar hollow, every day, but i don't dee anything why? If you get my drift

 

[54ball]

I kind of feel there is a caliber police theme to this thread. A crusade against smaller legal calibers.

Since hunting is such a personal and private pursuit why do you care what someone else uses and further more is really anybodies business?

Blackbruin this is not directed at you but the whole thread in general.