Does anyone have a pic of powder in a pan?

[Cattywompuss]

Your illustration is right on the money. You want the spark to jump into the hole, whereas if you pile a huge dump it actually slows down ignition. You've shown a perfect example.

I've heard this phrase "spark to jump" before, but, like Sasquatch, I won't believe a spark jumps without video. Preferably in 4K, with He of the Biggest Feet himself giving me a play by play. Up till this point I had never considered that the Great Lost Hominid of North America was a BP enthusiast, but I'm really not surprised, all things considered.

 

[CaptainKirk]

I've heard this phrase "spark to jump" before, but, like Sasquatch, I won't believe a spark jumps without video. Preferably in 4K, with He of the Biggest Feet himself giving me a play by play. Up till this point I had never considered that the Great Lost Hominid of North America was a BP enthusiast, but I'm really not surprised, all things considered.

OK...it's not really a "spark". It's a traveling flame front. And if you plug the hole with powder the flame front has to burn it's way through the powder to reach the main charge. A properly charged pan with an unobstructed flash hole and proper powder will produce nearly simultaneous ignition.

 

[Brokennock]

Each gun is different. And an individual gun can be different in its likes with different powders. This is my Early Virginia Smoothrifle with Siler lock.
What is pictured is about the maximum amount of 3f powder it wants in the pan, much more and it seems slower.
It will tolerate a bit more powder if using 4f.
My Fusil des Chase, which has a bigger lock and a direct drilled touch hole, likes a bit more powder whether 3f or 4f.

 

[Rod Man]

I’m on the less is more side. (4F)

RM

 

[cornstalk]

^^ This is a much better quantity of powder in my opinion. And Brokennock's as well.

 

[John Spartan]

Thanks all!
The “fill to the bottom of the touch hole” had me wondering if I was reading right and I guess I was after all.
More is not always better apparently.

 

[okcaveman]

My 36 tvm with a small siler does great with a single 3 gr charge of 4f. Not much at all

 

[Anvilboy]

Does anyone have the link to the ALR site article where one of the more knowledgeable experimenters said the amount of flash powder didn't matter? I recall that he did experiments where he piled flash powder up against the touch hole as opposed to just in the bottom of the pan and reported no difference in speed.

 

[Packrat]

This is what works for me, I charge the pan to fill just to the half way point of the touch hole, than I twist the rifle to throw the powder away from the touch hole, aim and fire

 

[Grenadier1758]

Does anyone have the link to the ALR site article where one of the more knowledgeable experimenters said the amount of flash powder didn't matter? I recall that he did experiments where he piled flash powder up against the touch hole as opposed to just in the bottom of the pan and reported no difference in speed.

You can look at the threads posted by @Larry Pletcher. He conducted the tests with high speed cameras at various NMLRA shoots. Links to the results are posted on this Forum as well as the ALR site.

Pan flash - from INSIDE the barrel | Page 2 | The Muzzleloading Forum

 

[Jim]

Yeah, so does everyone else flinching, ducking and cussing on the line next to you. lol

If a flinter on the line is on my left, I have to time my aiming/shooting to his, lest I get powder burns from his touch-hole! (Bummer)

Whenever possible, I try to put at least one firing point between us.

 

[Brokennock]

Does anyone have the link to the ALR site article where one of the more knowledgeable experimenters said the amount of flash powder didn't matter? I recall that he did experiments where he piled flash powder up against the touch hole as opposed to just in the bottom of the pan and reported no difference in speed.

I'm assuming that the experimenter was Pletch, he used to post here and his tests have been posted here a few times.
While I don't discount his testing and certainly appreciate the time and effort he puts into it, and I do not argue with his outcomes,
I do think that controled testing environments do not replicate real world use. Only in that all factors can be tested for. While his test may not show a difference in time from pan ignition to main charge ignition between priming powder amounts, there is a difference between controlled and measured amounts of prime, say a 3 grain prime and a 6 or even 9 grain prime (numbers are just out of my head, not pulled from his testing), and just a visual observation of what is enough and what is too much when priming from the horn or other non-metered device.

 

[okawbow]

Tests with high speed cameras have shown the amount of prime or even covering the flash hole with prime does not slow down ignition. I think what happens, is the shooter is more aware of the priming ignition if there is more powder in the pan. A small amount of primer goes off without making the shooter flinch, and they hear the main powder ignition before they notice the flash of the primer so much. The most reliable ignition for hunting is a full pan. The best amount for target is just enough for reliable ignition without failure to fire or hang fire.

 

[Howard Pippin]

If a flinter on the line is on my left, I have to time my aiming/shooting to his, lest I get powder burns from his touch-hole! (Bummer)

Whenever possible, I try to put at least one firing point between us.

I use a primer cup shield, or maybe it's called something else, but it keeps the primer from flashing out to the side. Am I the only one that uses one of these? I found them for sale but they were all right-handed and I had to send my lock in to have one made for a left-handed Flint lock. I think I could've made a simple one, but it would look like I made it, and a gunsmith named Mike Lee made me a nice one. It looks fine and works good.
Squint

 

[Flintlock]

I'm assuming that the experimenter was Pletch, he used to post here and his tests have been posted here a few times.
While I don't discount his testing and certainly appreciate the time and effort he puts into it, and I do not argue with his outcomes,
I do think that controled testing environments do not replicate real world use. Only in that all factors can be tested for. While his test may not show a difference in time from pan ignition to main charge ignition between priming powder amounts, there is a difference between controlled and measured amounts of prime, say a 3 grain prime and a 6 or even 9 grain prime (numbers are just out of my head, not pulled from his testing), and just a visual observation of what is enough and what is too much when priming from the horn or other non-metered device.

True, and glad he took the time to post his experiments but flintlocks ( all gun testing) should be preformed in real world enviroments. I just need a flash not a explosion to be shared by all.

 

[Grenadier1758]

If a flinter on the line is on my left, I have to time my aiming/shooting to his, lest I get powder burns from his touch-hole! (Bummer)

Whenever possible, I try to put at least one firing point between us.

Whenever I am shooting my flintlock that does not have a flashguard, I will get an extra target frame set up to block the jet of flame from the touch hole.

Mike Lea installed the flash guards on my L&R locks. They do not have the axle for the frizzen installed with threads in the bolster. He did a good job.

 

[Omhra]

Yeah, so does everyone else flinching, ducking and cussing on the line next to you. lol

My wife Nods in agreement, as the shooter to my right was surprised by the loud deep bang.

 

[Tenring]

You never want it to burn like a fuse, fill the pan almost level then with the side of your fist give the rifle a little thump pushing the powder away from the touch hole, lock time should be instant not delay bang just bang.

 

[Brokennock]

The most reliable ignition for hunting is a full pan.

Not so.
That Early Virginia gets weird with a full pan of 3f. Why use more powder than needed?
The bigger lock that I mentioned may need more powder, and tolerate more powder, but I still don't want to fill the pan. The larger flash hole already makes an awful mess all over the shooting bench, why have it blasting even more priming powder all over the place?

 

[M. De Land]

Not so.
That Early Virginia gets weird with a full pan of 3f. Why use more powder than needed?
The bigger lock that I mentioned may need more powder, and tolerate more powder, but I still don't want to fill the pan. The larger flash hole already makes an awful mess all over the shooting bench, why have it blasting even more priming powder all over the place?

I have used various amounts and positioning of pan powder and found that a partially filled pan works great for match shooting where your not moving the gun much but the same pan fill when you are hunting will not be in the same position it was placed after a bit of field carry. My opinion is that in the field the pan should be full so the frizzen spring can maintain the pan powder positioning in which is was placed at loading.