double barrel flint shotguns

[talon]

Are there any builders that turn out any flint lock doubles on a regular basis? How much of a demand is out there for double flinters?

 

There's huge demand IMO. I saw an add in an old mag (muzzleblast or muzzleloader) showing a sxs flint by "Phillips"? that was made with cochran locks and they were selling them cheap. About $800 or $900. Don't know if they are still available. There are several makers that build a few. The only maker I can think of that specializes in sxs flints is Mike Ehinger but they start at $18,000US and go up from there. If your considering making them to sell, there is certainly a market.

Cody

 

[Slowpoke]

What Cody said, the demand is there but the problem is making them is difficult. Mike Brooks I think has made a couple but I believe he said he would make another on until he made one for himself.

 

[Alberta Black]

Both my hunting partners have S/S flint doubles. The nicer one is in 16 gauge was purchased off TOTW and the other a 12 gauge was purchased from a gunmaker from Lethbridge Alberta.

Both were pricey and the makers used barrels cut from old S/S shotguns.

 

and the other a 12 gauge was purchased from a gunmaker from Lethbridge Alberta.
.

Would that be from Eric Martens by chance?

Cody

 

[szihn]

I doubt that any one regularly makes muzzleloading doubles of any kind. I have made several, both rifles and shotguns. However, to do them correctly, and to a high level of quality, the time needed is measured in months.
Obviously if I charge a living wage (about 16-17 an hour) The math come up to about $12,500 to about $17,000 in labor alone. That doesn't include the price of parts and materals.

I LOVE doing doubles, but they have to go for around $16,000 + for me to just earn a living, and the real high grade work ("in case, complete") gose for more than that.
To do flint doubes and make them with correct locks and breaches, I have to make the locks for the resesed breaches. Makeing 2 mirror image locks is very time consuming. Then the breaches have to be made, so as to fit the locks perfectly. In double flint guns, I can use commercial barrels blanks and maybe a butt plate, but most of the gun has to be hand made. I would assume most other gunmakes would agree.
There are parts that are "available" from a few sourses, but if you have ever tried to actually get them (as I have) you will find that making them all by hand is a lot faster, and will be lot better in quality.

 

Contemporary flint doubles that are period correct are a rare bird indeed. I've seen many beautiful contemporary flint doubles (and some not so beautiful), but can't recall seeing one that was period correct. I'm quite sure they are out there, I just haven't seen one. Sure do like seeing pictures though, PC or not.

Cody

 

[Wehrmacht]

Cody,

I'll get my son to help me make some digital photos and email them to you. I don't have enough computer knowledge to know how to post them here on the Forum.

Dave Dodds has the original from which mine was copied,and it's a pretty close copy. Ron Ehlert did the engraving and there was a lot of it! He,too,had the original on the work bench while he worked on it.

Even though it LOOKS almost identical to the original, it is vastly different in how it feels and handles, and that has been a disappointment. At least the 20ga barrels are a disappointment. These are way too heavy for anything but sitting still and calling turkeys within range.

The new 16ga barrels that Ed Rayle just made for me does create a piece very close to the original in handling, but still,it just isn't as quick and easy as the original. But we have to live with the situation considering barrel makers liability issues.Those old original barrels are paper thin, and no modern barrel maker can afford to run the liability risk of making really thin barrels!

 

[Mike Brooks]

Those old original barrels are paper thin, and no modern barrel maker can afford to run the liability risk of making really thin barrels!

*

That's why I use original barrels!

 

[Wes/Tex]

There are a few problems with double flinters. One, already mentioned, is the barrel thickness which is why many makers use barrels from old guns. The problem is that most are damascus and these can be dangerous to use if not thoroughly checked out.

Another lesser consideration is the architecture involved with making them. To keep the lock area from becoming bulky and ungainly, most of the old and modern makers taper the locks toward the rear to put the thickest part of the lock area at the head of the locks and thinned out toward the rear. This type of architectural is the reason thin barrels are needed since the breech needs to be as thin as possible.

These guns are very labor intensive and I've seen none under $1,5000, and these are usually used guns. There is currently a double 12 guage on The Gun Works site. It was made by Ed Williamson of the Whiskey Flat Rifle Shop using damascus barrels with the original makers name, Harrison Carlisle, and is listed at $1,750. Might be worth a look.

 

That's why I use original barrels!

Right. However, not all original barrels are light and good ones are REAL hard to find.

 

[mmahlock]

There are a few problems with double flinters. .... Another lesser consideration is the architecture involved with making them. To keep the lock area from becoming bulky and ungainly, most of the old and modern makers taper the locks toward the rear to put the thickest part of the lock area at the head of the locks and thinned out toward the rear. This type of architectural is the reason thin barrels are needed since the breech needs to be as thin as possible.

What about the Over/Under configuration? I've seen several period O/U shotguns and double rifles.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I suppose it's possible to build a swivel breech shotgun. The action type has been around for a long time. I've never seen a shotgun version, though, and maybe the weight would be a problem. Personally, I'd rather have a fine single
barrel fowling piece--nice and light and long of barrel.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Those old original barrels are paper thin, and no modern barrel maker can afford to run the liability risk of making really thin barrels!

I have read that the Belgians had the highest standards for proofing of the original bbls. It seemed the English were rather notorious for sending thick walled bbls to the proof house, once stamped, they thinned them down before building the finished guns.

 

What about the Over/Under configuration? I've seen several period O/U shotguns and double rifles.

Fixed breech O/U flintlocks require back action locks. While you can buy castings to build correct sxs flintlocks, I'm not aware of anyone offering casting to make back action locks. Of course, there's nothing stopping anyone from fabricating their own from scratch. A swivel breech, while more mechanically involved, would be a better choice simply because action are available as well as at least one book on building a swivel breech action.

 

[Alberta Black]

Cody

I believe it was Eric but I candouble check if you really want to know.

ab

 

AB, I was just curious. There's not many around these parts building them and I knew Eric had made one. Niall Sadler (from Strathmore) also made one. They both had them at the Ft Macmurray rondy 3 or 4 years ago.

Cody

 

[Mike Brooks]

That's why I use original barrels!

Right. However, not all original barrels are light and good ones are REAL hard to find.

I've been looking for and buying old damascus barrels since about 1981. I've managed to build up a corner full of nice small bored light weight examples. :winking: Trouble is, every one wants a 12 bore....I'll not build another larger than a 16 bore.

 

[mmahlock]

Fixed breech O/U flintlocks require back action locks.

Oh contraire.

 

Fixed breech O/U flintlocks require back action locks.

Oh contraire.

Sir Micheal, Those ARE back action locks. The main spring is mounted in the back as there is nowhere to put it in the front (barrels are in the way). They would look something like this

Cody

BTW, I believe that should be "au" contraire :grin: