What's printed in the DGW catalog ain't gospel. Read with caution.
Double dose.
- Thread starter Britsmoothy
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I remember reading in “Building of Pennsylvania Longrifle”; the way to proof a handmade barrel is to load three charges, and three projectiles. Do this with a string on trigger at a distance. If there is no swelling or separation upon inspection, the barrel has successfully been proofed.
user 49399
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I use 1f, 2f and 3f in my guns 50 caliber and up. The only reason I don’t use 4f is, I ain’t got none.
Yes I have and only got a sore shoulder----- and lousy accuracy!
4F will blow up your gun, plastic powder measures will blow up both you and your house if you use black powder in them,.......there must be a few more of these old wives tales to tell.
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I didI must thank you gentlemen for your honesty.
Now I will tell why I asked.
How come no one has blown a gun up by overloading it with black powder 3f or larger grade but loading with 4f will end the world?
Get my drift...oh and please, don't try telling me, "yeah but should you double up on 4f...."
I just wish the closet 4f users would come out and own up to being an abuser, I mean user. Because someone is, someone is buying it! No way is it all going in pans!
I'm gonna get some bumper stickers made up.
I use 4f.
So 4f to you!
Brit, let me tell you about a guy I saw one year at the BPCR silhouette nationals at the NRA Whittington Center.I must thank you gentlemen for your honesty.
Now I will tell why I asked.
How come no one has blown a gun up by overloading it with black powder 3f or larger grade but loading with 4f will end the world?
Get my drift...oh and please, don't try telling me, "yeah but should you double up on 4f...."
I just wish the closet 4f users would come out and own up to being an abuser, I mean user. Because someone is, someone is buying it! No way is it all going in pans!
I'm gonna get some bumper stickers made up.
I use 4f.
So 4f to you!
He had a Shiloh Sharps in 45-120. This is the 3 1/4” long case. He was DETERMINED to use a full 120 grains of BP. The only way he could do that and seat the bullet was load 120 grains of 4F powder behind a 520 grain bullet. When he touched off a round it was something - kicked him mercilessly… He couldn’t hit the side of a barn from the inside either. But you know what, his gun didn’t blow up either. Now - sorry I mentioned a breach loader, but I thought this was worth telling.
Allways use 4f (Blacksilver 1 or Swiss 1 in my Flint game guns.) Never have any problems Just drop 1/4 dram of the stndard charge. Works fine on Game or Clays. Even use it in my 26" barreled 16b Double Cap gun.. O.D.
sportster73hp
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Now this was more interesting than the many threads on “ what to do when i dry ball my gun”
Yes, i too have put a double charge of powder down the barrel. Always when someone came over to talk.
Yes, i too have put a double charge of powder down the barrel. Always when someone came over to talk.
Brokennock
Cannon
Interestingly enough, while you were on hiatus, the pitchforks and torches got put away,,,,, sort of.I must thank you gentlemen for your honesty.
Now I will tell why I asked.
How come no one has blown a gun up by overloading it with black powder 3f or larger grade but loading with 4f will end the world?
Get my drift...oh and please, don't try telling me, "yeah but should you double up on 4f...."
I just wish the closet 4f users would come out and own up to being an abuser, I mean user. Because someone is, someone is buying it! No way is it all going in pans!
I'm gonna get some bumper stickers made up.
I use 4f.
So 4f to you!
In a few topic posts a couple folks mentioned using 4f as a main charge,,,,, no one rooted or made a fuss. I knew all along you couldn't be alone in this practice.
I don't think the torch and pitchfork bearers are so much upset that you use it, and/or that you mention using it. They are upset that your use and telling challenges what they were always told and always believed,,,, and now can't find any evidence to prove.
It's like telling folks that Rev War period minutemen didn't use short starters, and same period rifleman most likely didn't either.
Or admit you used a little glue on the baseplate of a horn.
Challenge the status quo, disrupt people's comfortable little beliefs, they will witch hunt you for it. Make them question decades of mantra, challenge the, "the sky is falling," safety crowd,,,,, they will burn you amd your glued horn full of 4f at the stake.
Walkingeagle
54 Cal.
This being the same crowd that swears Pyro is more corrosive, will deteriorate, is less consistent in performance, harder to clean and the spawn of the devil. At least in their opinions, and don’t confuse them with facts!!
Britt knows his stuff, and I would listen when he speaks.
Walk
Brit, I remember some time ago you posted a picture of what you call ffff and to me it looked more like fff, not that it matters. I have experimented with ffff as a main charge in small caliber's like .32 and .36 and found accuracy to be wanting, but never feared blowing anything up.
I don't know why this print is coming out in bold type. HaH! must have hit something by mistake!
Here is a picture of the three most used Goex powders. All the best,
Robby
I don't know why this print is coming out in bold type. HaH! must have hit something by mistake!
Here is a picture of the three most used Goex powders. All the best,
Robby
Yes sir. Zonie put me right a few years ago. It transpired my powder called fine was a mix of 4&3f.
I will try and replicate your photo...if I have any "fine" left. I've used it up as it is my favourite.
Your 2f reminds me of the course stuff I can get. I bought some once, never again. It was useless in my shotguns!
Total of 4.5drams Blacksilver1 (Old Italian Powder about = to Swiss 1 or 4f ) with 11/4oz of 8's. "Nesclay!!" .Didn't really hurt, just a bit of a surprise. and was 1 charge short on the detail. Plus some ODD looks from fellow competitors.. Flint gun O.K. O.D.
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Extra recoil , fire , and smoke , in cal.'s .50 and larger. Have never seen damage.
skwerleater
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Once when I was squirrel hunting with a friend, we got into a bunch of squirrels and we got off two shots each. On the last squirrel we were both reloading, looking up and exchanging words on who would take the shot. All as quickly as we could. Well.... I double charged on the powder without realizing it.....until I pulled the trigger. The French pattern gun I was using hit me hard in the face. It was about 140 grns of 2f and an ounce n a quarter of # 4 shot. Only damage was to my mouth. Spit a little blood out. Gun was and still is fine. Squirrel..... not so much.
I overloaded a smoothbore pistol, but I caught my mistake and turned it over to dump out the powder. I recharged the gun, not realizing there was some residual powder remaining in the bore. I'm not sure how much, but it was enough to open the skin of my left index finger.
Have told the tale before about a gunsmith pal and I talking while loading (kinda like DUI with BP). I doubled the powder in the 12 GA he had just watched me shoot and advised the pattern was HUGE. I had to see so he shot the double powder (180 gr) and shot. Very loud, he ended up fetal and rocking back and forth moaning and chanting about not doing recoil (he did have a bad back). Hardest time to withhold laughing for me yet. It did blow the newly installed bead off (and he actually re replaced it too!). SOOOO glad I wasn't shooting that one. He told all I did it on purpose but I would NEVER subject my own guns to such abuse intentionally.
My old peder 10GA with goose loads was enough for me.
My old peder 10GA with goose loads was enough for me.
It was clearly stated in TC loading manual back in the 1970s .50 had to have 2F and 16 bore and above 1F
I don’t think magnum charges do you or your gun any service, but top charges were between 90 and 110 grains.
Other companies at the time followed suit.
Hi Tenngun.
Since then, 1970, I'd bet hundred of them have been loaded with finer grades but no one was harmed.
I believe they wrote that not to protect anyone but themselves! A statement based upon fear of comeback instead of scientific evidence of catastrophic failure of their firearms!
I mean let's think about it logically.
If someone built a muzzleloader so light that it was safe to use 1f but 4f would destroy it should they (whom ever) be selling said product? I think not, it's going to fail anyway one humer error enters the scene correct?
Changing tack, I believe this all started with the age of nitro powders. Some of which can destroy firearms in the wrong applications and doses.
Generally the faster or hotter nitro powders quickly became known for easily being double dosed in revolver cartridges and splitting the cylinder.
This got the perceived faster and or hotter as some say 4f branded with the same necessary cautious approach in use to the point that it's probably best to avoid using it at all except in a flintlock pan.
The irony is though that the fastest nitro is still in use in said applications but. 4f remains demonised! Just does not make any sense at all to me!
