Dram Equivalent and smokeless powder.

[Grandpa Ron]

All too often people state that black powder does not have the power to measure up to smokeless loads. However, it is best to remember that with shotguns, it is not a matter of which can shoot fastest or farthest.

Shot shells are loaded to “Dram Equivalent” of black powder. This was used because over time certain powder and shot loads were found to give the best performance in terms of pattern and killing power. :hmm:

One dram of black powder is 27.34 grains of black powder by weight. So a 3 dram load is about 82 grains.

Since the modern shooter needs to know what to expect from any particular box of shells, they are marked to show that they are loaded to perform like the old black powder loads; not too slow and not too fast. They are the "Dram Equivalent" to the historically perfected loads. :grin:

All this sounds romantic and these days it pretty much is, modern shot cups, barrel profiles, powder burn rated and etc. have changed the pattern and power performance of the modern shells. This basically reduces the meaning of the Dram Equivalent to a velocity measurement.

The use of non-toxic shot has further complicated the issue because the lighter shot is loaded to higher velocities to try to make it more comparable to lead at the longer distances.

Fortunately, this is less of an issue to us muzzle loaders, because our cylinder bores limit the useful range of our shots. We simply do not need the higher initial velocity for a long distance shot. There are of course modern choke tubed muzzle loading shotgun and it is up to the individual to determine their effective range.

Plenty of water fowl has succumbed to today's black powder muzzle loader. :thumbsup:

 

[coloradoclyde]

:applause:

 

[hanshi]

Great post and good explanation of shotgun loads.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Shot shells are loaded to “Dram Equivalent” of black powder. This was used because over time certain powder and shot loads were found to give the best performance in terms of pattern and killing power.

Alas... many of the most recent manufactured shotshells are now in boxes labelled with fps instead of Dram Equivalent...

LD

 

[George]

Good post, Grandpa Ron. For those of us who fool around with the historical aspects of black powder loads, there is a point of confusion which we need to be aware of. During the 18th century and for some time after, both the avoirdupois and the apothecaries system of weights and measures were in effect, so if you see a reference to drams in the old literature you need to make certain you understand which system they are referencing. In the avoirdupois system the dram is equal to 27.34 grains, but in the apothecaries system it is equal to 60 grains.

As an example, in An Essay on Shooting by Wm. Cleator, London, 1789, he says: "For a fowling piece of a common caliber, which is from twenty-four to thirty balls to the pound weight; a dram and a quarter, or, at most, a dram and a half, of good powder; and an ounce, or an ounce and a quarter, of shot, is sufficient." If you do the math you see that he must have been using the apothecaries system, recommending 75 to 90 grains, not 34 or 41 as in the avoirdupois system.

You see both dram and drachm used, they are the same, but drachm is an alternate spelling, mostly British.

The avoirdupois system is assumed in general usage, today, although a combination of apothecaries system and metric system is used in medicine.

Spence

 

[Col. Batguano]

So would using those loadings as marked on modern shot shells be good guidelines for our front stuffers? Ex; 3 1/2 dr eq, 1 1/4 oz shot.

 

[robinsroost]

Great post and good explanation of shotgun loads.

What hanshi said! :applause: :hmm:

 

[hunts4deer]

I believe that the modern loadings are using more powerful loads than were normally used in the muzzleloader days, even though they are stating a "dram equivalent" load. They do that because modern guns with chokes can give good results at higher velocities. But I think back in the day they were keeping loads moderate in order to get good patterns. For muzzleloaders, lighter shot loads at moderate velocities can produce good results.

The 20 gauge standard is about 62 grains with 7/8 oz shot, and 12 gauge is about 78 gains 1 1/8 oz shot, which should both be about "equal volume loads" for their gauge and often called a "square load".

I was reading recently that people were getting good patterns for waterfowl as long as they kept the velocity under 1250 fps. I think the thought is that a cluster of pellets running in that supersonic transition velocity is really bad for the shot pattern.

 

[JD Peppergrinder]

I always favored lower velocity loads because I think it accounts for good patterns. Another thing to consider, when modern shot loads are loaded really hot it deforms the shot and a fifth or more of your shot won't fly straight.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Graphic representations of shot pattern spread have always been depicted as a long cone shape.

My experience has been that it is more like a long stem bell.

Meaning that there is a point where a pattern transitions from dense to almost nonexistent in a relatively short distance.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I think that YES you can look at Dram equivalents to start your exploration...but you might want to look at old, turn of the 20th century smokeless shell boxes for best results. Black powder shells were still on the market in the early days of the 20th century, and what the smokeless shell makers were doing was telling the folks who were used to black powder shotshells, what the modern shells for their new shotguns were, as compared to what was known. So try to find an image of a box for the gauge you are using.

LD

 

[Grandpa Ron]

Loyalist Dave has it right, “dram equivalent” was a convenient way to compare the known black powder shot shells to the then modern smokeless loads.

You can imagine the advertising hype and confusion over the ever changing selection of smokeless powders in those early days.

The muzzle loading black powder charges were about the same as the black powder shot shell loads. The Dixie catalog shows the 1896 British 12 ga muzzle loading service load as 3 ¼ drams (approx. 89 grains) and 1 ¼ oz. of shot. The 1902 Sear catalog reprint advertises 12 ga. black powder shot shells available in 3 ¼ drams with 1 1/8th oz. of shot. (36 cents for a box of 25 shells) :wink:

The 20 gauge black powder loads both use 7/8 oz. of shot however the Brit load was 2 ½ drams while the Sears load was 2 ¾ drams. Of course we do not know the powder granulations.

Square loads come pretty to these same combinations and are a good place to start while working up a load for your shotgun. You will find all sorts of shotgun loads in the historic record but unfortunately we do not always know the potency of the powder being used by the writer at the time.

Even today, the modern black power data shows different results for Goex, Swiss and Elephant powders, just to name a few; again pointing out the need to work with your particular firearm.

 

[bpd303]

I have an old adjustable measure marked in drams which I use for my smoothbore loads. Seems to work well for me using Goex FFG.

 

[nhmoose]

Apples to oranges IMHO

It meant speed of charge for the non ballistic folks of the time. Now Nothing.

Use it to load now you will lose any law suit by stupidity.

 

[Grandpa Ron]

NHmoose,

I am a bit surprised that the manufacturers still use the reference, given that some fool is liable to try 3 drams of smokeless. :shake:

But it has a long established tradition, particularly among the high end European gunsmiths who prided themselves on their shotgun performance.

As we know, old traditions die hard but as already mentioned, some shell boxes now only show ft./sec.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I am a bit surprised that the manufacturers still use the reference, given that some fool is liable to try 3 drams of smokeless.

I'm not... it's doubtful that folks using modern shotshells even understand what that means, if they are not into black powder. :haha: I didn't until I got a BP Shotgun, in this century. That's why the more recent boxes of shells give you fps on the outside and not "dram equivalent". :wink:

LD

 

[JD Peppergrinder]

I had to do some research about the dram eq. just to see how for modern shell loads have gotten from black powder loads what I got was really interesting.
So I just got back from a major outdoor retailer and it seems that the 12 gauge shells list fps and the 16 20 and 28 gauge list dram eq. :idunno: also in closer inspection the 20 gauge is closer to a Bp square load than the 12. A 20 hunting load was equal to 70 grains Black powder 7/8 ounce shot and a heavy field load is equal to 75 grains of black powder and 1 ounce of shot and a 20 gauge turkey load is equal to 80 grains bp and 1 1/4 ounce shot. The 12 gauge loads are a bit ridiculous a target load is more than a 20s hunting load and a turkey load in three inches of shell is equal to 110 grains of bp and 2 ounces of shot. :shocked2: why?
Sorry if I made too many references to modern smokeless loads.

 

[kituwa]

It has been my experiance that with a muzzle loader, lighter loads will do much better in almost all ways than heaver loads like us modern guys are taught to think. I use a 150 year old double 14 guage and it shoots very nice groups with 65grs of powder and 1 once of #8 shot.I do use a home made shot cup from heavy brown paper,thicker than a normal grocery sack with no slits and the cup is cut off so the one ounce load is about flush with the shot level and i brush on my melted lube on the shot cup.It is a veru pleasent load to shoot and it patterns as well as field loads in a modern 12 ga.that my son uses.Lighter loads often work better in modern cartrage guns too.I found that 2 1/2 inch AA .410 shells pattern better in my gun than any of the 3 inch shells in my gun.It is well worth the time to try lots of different comb's of shot size, powder charges and wads in your gun to find what your gun likes best, but dont be afraid to try loads a good bit lighter than you think would work best.And the old thing of using a tin can, not alum., to test that your pellets in your load will go through both sides at the ranges you expect as your max from your best pattern.Muzzle smooth bores are so much fun, you get a gun and a reloading station all in one!