Home defense black powder shotgunhome defense black powder shotgun

[smoothshooter]

I see a lot of conversations about what weapon would be best for home defense, I've always thought shotguns were a little bit overkill, at close range it's going to go straight through your attacker, and then keep going.

I went out and I did a little bit testing today, at ranges that would be considered inside of the home. Target is 1/16-in steel from an old microwave.

First test was a light target load 7.5 from about 10 ft away, zero spread, punched a hole like a cannon.
Number two was a slightly more powerful dove load at about 20 ftView attachment 301974

Shot two was a heavier #6 hunting load from around 20 ft little bit of spread, but not much. Note the massive hole in the middle and a few flyers.View attachment 301975

Shot three was from about 50 ft of number 1 buck. I got two shots in the equivalent of the groin, and to rite in the chest cavity. I got about a 50% "hit rate". It's possible that the hit rate was slightly higher, but its possible missed a few given pre-existing holes.
View attachment 301976

View attachment 301977

Moral of the story, black powder shotguns are still more than effective for a home defense weapon. At ranges under 15 ft, you're not getting any spread and you might as well be shooting a slug.

Don't think that old wall hanger won't put a hole through three people coming to your house at 2:00 a.m.

Use larger sized bird shot in your modern gun if over penetration is a concern.
It will cause a “rat hole” wound in tissue and anything that comes out the other side of the perp is not going to penetrate any walls or travel very far.
Even buckshot loads will make rat hole wounds up close.
Stick with modern guns for that use unless there is some legal reason you can’t.
If you miss with the first shot you will only have one left, with no opportunity to reload.
What if there is more than one perp?

 

[smoothshooter]

Well, I was in law enforcement for nearly 30 years. I was a handgun and shotgun instructor for about half that time. I've been retired for 25 years now, so what I have to say may or may not be outdated.
Back in the 1980's we did a lot of testing of various shotgun loads. 12 gauge only. Our raid teams always had at least one shotgun man who was usually the first guy through the door. (Only one guy preferred our other option, an H&K MP 5 sub-gun in 9mm instead of the shotgun for close, inside work, but he was always sort of a wild man anyway.) We used buckshot, so we experimented with both double 0 and #4 buck. We found the #4 buck to be unreliable. Not all of the pellets would fully penetrate a heavy winter coat from only 15 feet away. Double 0 did. So, for raid purposes, close range, we stuck with 12 gauge 00 buckshot.
Out on the streets our shotguns were usually loaded first with 00 buck and followed up with a couple slugs for longer range or for shooting through car doors or windshields.
Because of the lack of spread at close, indoors ranges, we found that a perp (bad guy) holding a hostage and attempting to hide behind that person, but exposing his head over the person's shoulder, we could blast him full in the face with a load of 00 buck from 10 feet away, and not one pellet would hit the hostage.
In a shootout with a barricaded subject who was on the 3rd floor of a duplex, we were firing from behind parked cars in the street in front of the building, my partner was hit in the hand by a single 00 buckshot pellet that had bounced off the aluminum siding of the building. Whether it was our own shot, or from one of the other officers on the scene, we will never know. The hit took my pardner to the ground and out of the action. (Later some teargas was fired into that 3rd floor window. But one canister missed the window and lodged in the eve of the house. That gas drifted down on me! Choke. Gasp.)
Anyway, for police work I think 12 gauge 00 buckshot works very well within its limits. However, for indoors, home defense, my personal choice is a short 20 gauge loaded with the largest birdshot that I can get in that gauge. If I could get 20-gauge buckshot I would probably use it. No slugs inside the house. And I back that up with a .38 revolver. Out on the streets I carry a more potent semi-auto pistol.
My wife is only 5' 2" but can handle a 20 gauge pretty well. She doesn't like a 12. She is also pretty good with her .38.
Relying on a black powder shotgun, or handgun, for self-defense is, in my opinion, foolish.
Opinions vary, and everybody has one.

Couldn’t it be said that a perp wearing heavy clothing would still be incapacitated for at least a little while if hit in the torso with a bird shot load that only had a 2 or 3 inch spread at close range. Kind of like a bean bag round?

 

[TFoley]

All hypothetical my friend. Heck I went to highschool with several, pretty sure they're behavior has not improved. Next time yer in the States in a big city one of us can likely suggest a route you can drive and you WILL see some thugs. Not in Mayberry but south Phoenix is usually interesting around dark.

Sir, I have no real interest on 'seeing thugs' of any kind. Having spent a deal of my life in Northern Ireland, I can assure you that thugism is not confined to your big cities. In over twenty-six years of the 'Troubles', I've encountered people, and I use the term loosely, who would make your home-grown thugs look like girl scout cookie sellers, and no, I'm not going to enlarge on that except to say that they seemed to share shared a common fondness for the hole-saw, soldering iron and oxy-acetylene torch.

We confine our sojourns in North America, when we are at home with my family in Ontario, to the more gentle parts of the PNW, bearing in mind that the state we choose to make our temporary home for a while has open carry.

 

[azmntman]

K

 

[NotDanielBoone]

I see a lot of conversations about what weapon would be best for home defense, I've always thought shotguns were a little bit overkill, at close range it's going to go straight through your attacker, and then keep going.

I went out and I did a little bit testing today, at ranges that would be considered inside of the home. Target is 1/16-in steel from an old microwave.

First test was a light target load 7.5 from about 10 ft away, zero spread, punched a hole like a cannon.
Number two was a slightly more powerful dove load at about 20 ftView attachment 301974

Shot two was a heavier #6 hunting load from around 20 ft little bit of spread, but not much. Note the massive hole in the middle and a few flyers.View attachment 301975

Shot three was from about 50 ft of number 1 buck. I got two shots in the equivalent of the groin, and to rite in the chest cavity. I got about a 50% "hit rate". It's possible that the hit rate was slightly higher, but its possible missed a few given pre-existing holes.
View attachment 301976

View attachment 301977

Moral of the story, black powder shotguns are still more than effective for a home defense weapon. At ranges under 15 ft, you're not getting any spread and you might as well be shooting a slug.

Don't think that old wall hanger won't put a hole through three people coming to your house at 2:00 a.m.

If I'm bloodying up my home, I'm going smokeless to minimize the cleanup. As neither my bride, nor the maid would be willing it would all be on me.

 

[Rancocas]

Couldn’t it be said that a perp wearing heavy clothing would still be incapacitated for at least a little while if hit in the torso with a bird shot load that only had a 2 or 3 inch spread at close range. Kind of like a bean bag round?

Absolutely

 

[Captndan]

BP for home or self defense is just foolish. Get a semi automatic hand gun, take a firearms safety course, learn how to handle it, practice at a range and pray you never have to use it.

 

[boberator]

I’d use whichever I reached first for HD. But, I do not keep BP guns loaded at home so it would have to be 1911 time or something similar.

 

[Jedidiah]

All hypothetical my friend. Heck I went to highschool with several, pretty sure they're behavior has not improved. Next time yer in the States in a big city one of us can likely suggest a route you can drive and you WILL see some thugs. Not in Mayberry but south Phoenix is usually interesting around dark.

LOL, I guess he does not hang around the docks in Liverpool or East End of London. England has more than its fair share of thugs, organized crime, gangs, and low life miscreants, especially since it went all PC and opened the doors to millions of immigrants.

 

[Jedidiah]

Well, I was in law enforcement for nearly 30 years. I was a handgun and shotgun instructor for about half that time. I've been retired for 25 years now, so what I have to say may or may not be outdated.
Back in the 1980's we did a lot of testing of various shotgun loads. 12 gauge only. Our raid teams always had at least one shotgun man who was usually the first guy through the door. (Only one guy preferred our other option, an H&K MP 5 sub-gun in 9mm instead of the shotgun for close, inside work, but he was always sort of a wild man anyway.) We used buckshot, so we experimented with both double 0 and #4 buck. We found the #4 buck to be unreliable. Not all of the pellets would fully penetrate a heavy winter coat from only 15 feet away. Double 0 did. So, for raid purposes, close range, we stuck with 12 gauge 00 buckshot.
Out on the streets our shotguns were usually loaded first with 00 buck and followed up with a couple slugs for longer range or for shooting through car doors or windshields.
Because of the lack of spread at close, indoors ranges, we found that a perp (bad guy) holding a hostage and attempting to hide behind that person, but exposing his head over the person's shoulder, we could blast him full in the face with a load of 00 buck from 10 feet away, and not one pellet would hit the hostage.
In a shootout with a barricaded subject who was on the 3rd floor of a duplex, we were firing from behind parked cars in the street in front of the building, my partner was hit in the hand by a single 00 buckshot pellet that had bounced off the aluminum siding of the building. Whether it was our own shot, or from one of the other officers on the scene, we will never know. The hit took my pardner to the ground and out of the action. (Later some teargas was fired into that 3rd floor window. But one canister missed the window and lodged in the eve of the house. That gas drifted down on me! Choke. Gasp.)
Anyway, for police work I think 12 gauge 00 buckshot works very well within its limits. However, for indoors, home defense, my personal choice is a short 20 gauge loaded with the largest birdshot that I can get in that gauge. If I could get 20-gauge buckshot I would probably use it. No slugs inside the house. And I back that up with a .38 revolver. Out on the streets I carry a more potent semi-auto pistol.
My wife is only 5' 2" but can handle a 20 gauge pretty well. She doesn't like a 12. She is also pretty good with her .38.
Relying on a black powder shotgun, or handgun, for self-defense is, in my opinion, foolish.
Opinions vary, and everybody has one.

I use the Mossberg Shockwave with Mini Buck #4. Holds a lot of them and at indoor ranges they are plenty powerful. The first 4 rds are mini's and then the rest are Buck n Ball specialty loads. They are nasty., .62 cal ball with 5, 00 buck! I live in the South so heavy clothing is rarely an issue. If I was still in the NE, I would be loading 00 or No 1 buck!!

 

[azmntman]

Geez, you guys need to do a gofundme for a "real" shotgun. I do like the ____berg Maverick in 20. While we wait for that my dbl 20 blk powder remains in the cabinet cleaned and unloaded and my stuff we cant discuss is in the same places it has always been and I remain thug free. Should I cut off a cartel thug in traffic and get followed home and (have time) I will load up the 20, grab the other thing, get an ice tea, sit on the recliner (positioned at the door) and patiently wait for jose julio theFoolio to come kill me. If no time (as in he's close on my heels) I will just grab the other thing with 17 chances to stop him. Cuz thats all wanna do, stop him. Per my above posts it may take 17 shots to stop him guz I never shoot the dang thing and I hear they still spasm and wiggle till the last of the 17 are in.

 

[wganz]

Couldn’t it be said that a perp wearing heavy clothing would still be incapacitated for at least a little while if hit in the torso with a bird shot load that only had a 2 or 3 inch spread at close range. Kind of like a bean bag round?

OK, you knocked him & now he’s getting back up + really mad. Now what?

Wouldn’t it be better if you stopped the threat with the first shot?

 

[TFoley]

Absolutely

Yup, with the shotgun, aim at the nose.

With the handgun, the whole face. Or, if you have time to pick an eye - any eye will do just fine.

With a carbine/rifle, anywhere above the sole of a foot - basically, anything visible. Especially a major joint - ankle, knee, hip. But hey, just getting shot in the ankle REALLY hurts, even with a .22cal.

 

[Garbear34]

G19 night stand. My bob gun AR15 by bravo company mfg in arms reach with my ruck. I do have a double barrel 12 gauge muzzloading shotgun that uses 209 primers. If I was forced to use that for home defense 50 grains powder and round ball. Not great option with black powder

 

[Banjoman]

Wow! I thought I was on The Muzzleloading Forum but somehow I ended up on The High Road. iPads do crazy things sometimes.

 

[The Damned Yankee]

I've see a few questions on here lately about using Black Powder / muzzle loaders for home defense or concealed carry. My initial thought is always "Don't!"
I don't know why anyone would consider it. Are you trying to go cheap because you think a BP gun is less expensive than a modern gun? News flash- "If it is, you are NOT getting a good one.
Unless you are extremely familiar with your gun(s) the two rules for a life saving self protection / home defense gun is #1 dependability & #2 simplicity! This is something you will have to use to save your life, it has to work! NOW! First time and every time. No mis fire, no hang fire no flash in the pan and heaven forbid no misfire because your cheapo home made cap didn't ignite.
The fancier the gun, the more complicated. Simple is better. i.e. revolvers. Point and click, or should I say BANG! If considering an auto, can you put 200 rounds through it with out it jamming? Know your safety!
All gun owners are responsible to be familiar with their guns. For defense being familiar is not enough. It has to be instinctive. Know your weapon.
Respectfully,
TDY

 

[Flint Striker]

All hypothetical my friend. Heck I went to highschool with several, pretty sure they're behavior has not improved. Next time yer in the States in a big city one of us can likely suggest a route you can drive and you WILL see some thugs. Not in Mayberry but south Phoenix is usually interesting around dark.

Even in Mayberry and rural areas, there are plenty of criminals around. Like you I attended high school with some, several of whom have been in and out of prison. The other concern is that you often can’t rely on the police because one or two officers might be responsible for patrolling entire counties. Help might be forty minutes, an hour, or more until it arrives. Having said that, I doubt that many here own only black powder guns and no cartridge firearms. I could make just about any reliable cartridge firearm work for self defense if I have a little luck choosing the ammo.

 

[mikek793]

View attachment 302889
Too late!!!

Don

 

[Two Elks]

I teach hunter safety and gun safety. We teach to use a shotgun and aim for the face area. A shotgun will be less likely to penetrate a wall and hurt someone on the other side - or outside of a house, or a neighbor house. Any kind of shotgun load to the face/head will do serious damage, probably be fatal, and certainly blind the invader as well. The fatal triangle area of the body is the area of the 2 eyes and just below the nose. This has been tried and proven several times.

 

[mikek793]

All hypothetical my friend. Heck I went to highschool with several, pretty sure they're behavior has not improved. Next time yer in the States in a big city one of us can likely suggest a route you can drive and you WILL see some thugs. Not in Mayberry but south Phoenix is usually interesting around dark.

And south Tucson ain't any better for that matter. Especially these open border days.