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Cannon
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Knowing that I'm not as fast and agile as I used to be, I do the same as @Eric Krewson. Always keep them close by.
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Home defense black powder shotgunhome defense black powder shotgun
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Tenring
45 Cal.
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Could you imagine blasting off a BP Shotgun in your house , after Serve Pro got done cleaning up the mess it would take months to get rid of the sulfur rotten egg smell. I truly enjoy ML and all it has to offer that’s for sure but I do live in the 21st century and I am glad we have smokeless powder for just such occasions en witch I hope never does arise. Hope I didn’t step on any toes this was not my intent. Just my two cents all in fun.
Too late!!!
Don
I personally couldn't risk using a BP firearm for HD. At 54, I've severed in the military and had the misfortune of having to use my weapon in civilian life and military. While in the military and civi life I've experienced weapons failures due to bad ammo, which only requires racking another round (most of the time). I can't risk a bad cap or damp charge when I only have a half second to keep myself alive, much less replacing a dud cap or clearing a wet charge and then reloading. While any gun is better than no gun, trusting your life to an unreliable gun is more dangerous than having no gun at all.
I keep all of my guns unloaded and locked up. I’m more worried about one of my young daughters finding a loaded firearm and causing an accidental shooting, than a baddie breaking in in the middle of the night.
I have and will teach my girls about firearm safety (they are 5 and 2). But I think the real risk in my home is having unsecured or easily accessible guns. I understand not everyone is in my position.
I have and will teach my girls about firearm safety (they are 5 and 2). But I think the real risk in my home is having unsecured or easily accessible guns. I understand not everyone is in my position.
When I was 9 or 10, I would wait until my parents left, get out my dad's 22 and shoot up the farm. When I was done, I would clean the rifle and put it back where he stored it, they never knew about my practice sessions. Anybody could buy ammo back then so I shot what I bought with my paper route money.
We lived in a small old farmhouse when I got out of the Army, I had just started working for a power company at an entry level. I had a Ruger single six and a S&W 38 and no safe place to lock them up, the old house didn't have closets. My 5-year-old son was into playing cowboys and Indians, fearing he would be as mischievous about guns as I was, I sold my pistols to keep them out of his reach.
I live alone at the end of a dead-end road out in the county now, I have pistols scattered about the house and in each of my vehicles. When I have company that is not familiar with guns and shooting, all of my random guns go to the gun safe before my company arrives.
We lived in a small old farmhouse when I got out of the Army, I had just started working for a power company at an entry level. I had a Ruger single six and a S&W 38 and no safe place to lock them up, the old house didn't have closets. My 5-year-old son was into playing cowboys and Indians, fearing he would be as mischievous about guns as I was, I sold my pistols to keep them out of his reach.
I live alone at the end of a dead-end road out in the county now, I have pistols scattered about the house and in each of my vehicles. When I have company that is not familiar with guns and shooting, all of my random guns go to the gun safe before my company arrives.
wont bet my life on a BP Pistol. Keep a one and done around
BP is the last choice for a home defense firearm. If you have a felony record, they may be your only choice, and is the only way I can see someone wanting to use one.
Since I sleep with the door open in the summer, all a bear or lion would need to do is walk in. So, an 8 round Mossberg is by the bed, three non-lethal rounds to chase critters out, and five slugs if they need further elucidation on my part for them to fully understand they are not to come into the cabin. Same holds true for any miscreant who may wander in with nefarious plans.
Since I sleep with the door open in the summer, all a bear or lion would need to do is walk in. So, an 8 round Mossberg is by the bed, three non-lethal rounds to chase critters out, and five slugs if they need further elucidation on my part for them to fully understand they are not to come into the cabin. Same holds true for any miscreant who may wander in with nefarious plans.
I teach a Home Firearm Safety class each year as part of our 4-H program. Unfortuntately, there is no problem finding current and usually local new stories outlining youth that were injured or killed because of unsecured firearms in a home. There's just too much risk when it comes to my children or any other children that are in my home finding my guns. I'm glad I don't feel the need to sell my handguns like you did, but you certainly weighed the risk. Mine are locked away, separate from ammunition, and the keys to the safe/cabinets are where no one would ever find them.
Good on you for locking them up when you have company. I was visiting my uncle at Christmas one year, and witnessed a 3 year old pull his "home defense" shotgun out from under the couch when she tried to retrieve a ball that rolled under.
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Here in UK I don't actually know any thugs, let alone expect them to turn up at my house, expected or otherwise.
I guess that living in such a toxic environment, with the daily threat of home invasion or mass slaughter at the mall/school/local diner/church et al would tempt many folks into acquiring a weapon for self-defence..
Still and all, I'm happy to say that in all the years I've spent - in total- in the USA - I seen none of these life-threatening events. Never knowingly clapped eyes on a thug, either, for that matter, let alone have a passing acquaintance with a few of 'em.
MUST disagree, but not based on performance....,
Muzzle velocity is MV, and the lead projectiles have no difference if launched at 1000 fps by smokeless powder vs black powder...
As for spread, at normal house distances DON'T expect the pellets to be in enough of a cone to hit the perp in the dark. Remember that IC choke is made to give a good pattern at 25 YARDS, which is 75 feet... very very few people have an interior shot at nearly 75 feet. You DO need to aim.
We found that #6 shot from a sporting shell (aka low brass) to be the best at a) doing damage but b) not going through drywall into the innocent people on the other side. (Apartment dwellers and townhousers take note please)
Now I've had so called "experts" poo poo the idea of #6..., vs buckshot. Well getting sued or jailed over a wrongful wounding or wrongful death is a real thing..., even when the intended target was an complete bad guy and needed to be shot....
I'm in my 34th year as an LEO. I deal with aggravated assaults which include shootings, and... I've worked homicides in the past. You DO NOT want to use a BP shotgun..., or any BP firearm, if you can help it.
WHY Dave?
AH because the police are going to take that item from you when they arrive, and it's going to sit, uncleaned, in an evidence container for months or years before the local prosecutor says "OK, good shoot" and you get it back. How much corrosion damage will have been done, BUT..., that's not the most important reason...
The most important reason is COST.
Looking at the cost of a new or used black powder SxS or even a single shot, vs the cost of new, modern pump shotgun..., and it's rather foolish (imho-hbc) to drop four hundred dollars or more for a gun that will be confiscated and held for a long time, when you can buy a NEW home defense modern shotgun for less than $200..., with shipping and transfer fee you're still under $250.00 total cost. Heck you can buy TWO of one of the moderns for the price of the used SxS blackpowder, and when the police take the first one, wave bye bye, and pull out your second modern, and make sure it's loaded and ready to go.
LD
No one can predict when or where they might need to defend themselves. So the weapon of choice will be the first one they can reach. And what that weapon is depends on the individual and how they have prepared. I carry when I leave the house and in the house I am never more than a few steps away from 12 or more rounds ready to go.
Young children, and I include teens in that, can be a concern. But I suspect a couple of those small bio-metric safes can solve that problem.
Young children, and I include teens in that, can be a concern. But I suspect a couple of those small bio-metric safes can solve that problem.
I practice Ninjan' with "Diamond Dave". I have all of the deadly weapons I need...
Pretty much what I said, if a this is expected and I had the $$ I might do just that. Today I could swing a maverick at sportsman's but two weeks ago no moolah. Myself I trust hitting a guy with they cyl shotgun over a modern pistol as I shoot it. I won a nice unmentionable 2 years ago July 4th. Bought box of shells. Have not shot it yet. And MY cyl loaded anyway but skychief load, the room distance spreads about a foot. Not usable for hunting at 25 yds w/o skychief. Probably just mine. I did have it jug choked but haven't shot it yet (have discussed that in several in other threads).. I covered the cleaning thing same as you. Fortunately I don't EXPECT a thug anytime soon. And my other unmentionable has self defence loads in it now.. got several shots but I still trust the shotgun (long gun) over a pistol especially adding in the flash x 10. in an EXPECTED situation (in the next few hours) I would be sitting in my recliner with the 20 1st and the other ready to go for shots 3-11. I do have a modern 12 ga dbl but have shot 4 rounds through it and as you said no spread. I'd load something bigger than 4 too as I have both #2 and buckshot around.
We agree for your ability and most but I just don't shoot unmentionables enough to be comfortable with one. Maybe I should but I don't get enough shooting time as it is and I always grab something that loads black powder
All hypothetical my friend. Heck I went to highschool with several, pretty sure they're behavior has not improved. Next time yer in the States in a big city one of us can likely suggest a route you can drive and you WILL see some thugs. Not in Mayberry but south Phoenix is usually interesting around dark.
Banjoman
Eager to learn and willing to teach.
If I may, I’d like to drift back to the 18th and 19th centuries for a moment. As I understand, swan shot was a common type of shot used during this period. I’ve made some swan shot and it worked great on cardboard varmints from a .60 caliber Fusil de Chasse. I would think that if some varmint or two legged critter were raiding the chicken coop or hog lot, a load of swan shot from a smooth bore would solve the problem.
NO! NO! NO!
I’ve BTDT in a home invasion and survived by the Grace of GOD after doing everything WRONG.
That advice is going to get someone hurt or killed. Today’s ogres know that if you do that racking sound, that you’re more scared of the legal system than you are of them. They will then rush you to take your weapon away from you. On 08 Aug 1998, the guy that rushed me got a 0.452” 230 grain FMJ slug for mistaking my mercy for weakness.
Reread the bolder highlighted text until it is permanently ingrained in your mind.
BTDT. That is correct. Another fact is that there is time dilation that makes everything run super slow like a SciFi movie.
Shooting someone at 50 feet can make a self defense claim difficult.
Well, I was in law enforcement for nearly 30 years. I was a handgun and shotgun instructor for about half that time. I've been retired for 25 years now, so what I have to say may or may not be outdated.
Back in the 1980's we did a lot of testing of various shotgun loads. 12 gauge only. Our raid teams always had at least one shotgun man who was usually the first guy through the door. (Only one guy preferred our other option, an H&K MP 5 sub-gun in 9mm instead of the shotgun for close, inside work, but he was always sort of a wild man anyway.) We used buckshot, so we experimented with both double 0 and #4 buck. We found the #4 buck to be unreliable. Not all of the pellets would fully penetrate a heavy winter coat from only 15 feet away. Double 0 did. So, for raid purposes, close range, we stuck with 12 gauge 00 buckshot.
Out on the streets our shotguns were usually loaded first with 00 buck and followed up with a couple slugs for longer range or for shooting through car doors or windshields.
Because of the lack of spread at close, indoors ranges, we found that a perp (bad guy) holding a hostage and attempting to hide behind that person, but exposing his head over the person's shoulder, we could blast him full in the face with a load of 00 buck from 10 feet away, and not one pellet would hit the hostage.
In a shootout with a barricaded subject who was on the 3rd floor of a duplex, we were firing from behind parked cars in the street in front of the building, my partner was hit in the hand by a single 00 buckshot pellet that had bounced off the aluminum siding of the building. Whether it was our own shot, or from one of the other officers on the scene, we will never know. The hit took my pardner to the ground and out of the action. (Later some teargas was fired into that 3rd floor window. But one canister missed the window and lodged in the eve of the house. That gas drifted down on me! Choke. Gasp.)
Anyway, for police work I think 12 gauge 00 buckshot works very well within its limits. However, for indoors, home defense, my personal choice is a short 20 gauge loaded with the largest birdshot that I can get in that gauge. If I could get 20-gauge buckshot I would probably use it. No slugs inside the house. And I back that up with a .38 revolver. Out on the streets I carry a more potent semi-auto pistol.
My wife is only 5' 2" but can handle a 20 gauge pretty well. She doesn't like a 12. She is also pretty good with her .38.
Relying on a black powder shotgun, or handgun, for self-defense is, in my opinion, foolish.
Opinions vary, and everybody has one.
Back in the 1980's we did a lot of testing of various shotgun loads. 12 gauge only. Our raid teams always had at least one shotgun man who was usually the first guy through the door. (Only one guy preferred our other option, an H&K MP 5 sub-gun in 9mm instead of the shotgun for close, inside work, but he was always sort of a wild man anyway.) We used buckshot, so we experimented with both double 0 and #4 buck. We found the #4 buck to be unreliable. Not all of the pellets would fully penetrate a heavy winter coat from only 15 feet away. Double 0 did. So, for raid purposes, close range, we stuck with 12 gauge 00 buckshot.
Out on the streets our shotguns were usually loaded first with 00 buck and followed up with a couple slugs for longer range or for shooting through car doors or windshields.
Because of the lack of spread at close, indoors ranges, we found that a perp (bad guy) holding a hostage and attempting to hide behind that person, but exposing his head over the person's shoulder, we could blast him full in the face with a load of 00 buck from 10 feet away, and not one pellet would hit the hostage.
In a shootout with a barricaded subject who was on the 3rd floor of a duplex, we were firing from behind parked cars in the street in front of the building, my partner was hit in the hand by a single 00 buckshot pellet that had bounced off the aluminum siding of the building. Whether it was our own shot, or from one of the other officers on the scene, we will never know. The hit took my pardner to the ground and out of the action. (Later some teargas was fired into that 3rd floor window. But one canister missed the window and lodged in the eve of the house. That gas drifted down on me! Choke. Gasp.)
Anyway, for police work I think 12 gauge 00 buckshot works very well within its limits. However, for indoors, home defense, my personal choice is a short 20 gauge loaded with the largest birdshot that I can get in that gauge. If I could get 20-gauge buckshot I would probably use it. No slugs inside the house. And I back that up with a .38 revolver. Out on the streets I carry a more potent semi-auto pistol.
My wife is only 5' 2" but can handle a 20 gauge pretty well. She doesn't like a 12. She is also pretty good with her .38.
Relying on a black powder shotgun, or handgun, for self-defense is, in my opinion, foolish.
Opinions vary, and everybody has one.
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