Early Gunsmiths in the Colonies

[ronaldrothb49]

I attached a link to an article I read on a different page I also follow on Andreaus Albrecht which you can read. He was the individual who Started the Christian Springs Gun shop. What really surprised me is he was apprenticed as a Gun Stocker. Now that is a term I have heard many times about those of us who make guns today but I had never heard that term for anyone from 2 or 3 hundred years ago. The first person that popped into my head was Wolfgang Haga. No gun has ever been found that he signed. Of the rifles that Shumay and Kindig say may have been made by him are described as well made with beautiful carving but none are engraved. So I have to wonder if he never learned to do that because he was only a gun
stocker.
Well I have wondered for a long time how many of the gunsmiths who came here were actually a Master. The gun trade at that time was tightly controlled by the Guilds at that time and the only way to become a master was if the masters of your Guild Hall approved that. Only a master could open a gun shop. It benefited the masters to limit the number who became a master. It controlled competition. The market for their product they made was limited. They probably would need a patron, a prince, a duke, a count etc. Someone who needed to keep an armed force if for no other reason than to protect themselves. There weren't that many rich people around and the peasants could no afford guns. Secondly it kept and experienced pool of Journeymen who would be required to work for the masters if they wanted to practice their trade. Third it limited where someone could apprentice and they pretty much worked for room and board.

My question is how many that came here do you think were actually Masters or perhaps very experienced Journeymen who felt they would never become a master. Or perhaps a journeyman who just didn't want to work for someone else. Then you have the ones who just finished an apprenticeship and said I know everything and headed for the colonies. There are rifles that can be classified as the work of a master. then we have work that just not quiet there. and goes down from there.

What do you think?
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[rich pierce]

Albrecht was a journeyman. There are records of his “journeys” stocking rifles in Europe before he came here. I think it’s unlikely that many guild certified masters emigrated here. They’d have had plenty of opportunities in Europe. We also know that many immigrants who became notable gunsmiths here arrived as youths. I’m assuming nobody became a guild certified master before the age of 30. That’s an arbitrary assumption.

 

[Pete G]

Rich people, for the most part, have no need to migrate. They are doing fine where they are. That is why most of the colonists were not rich, although there were some who became rich as time progressed.


Just an FYI it is Christians Spring.

 

[Coot]

A number of early colonists were the 2nd or 3rd sons of the wealthy. The first son would inherit the fathers lands with the result that large estates were kept intact and land was seldom available for sale. Sending the "extra" sons over here with cash in hand would allow them to buy goodly tracts & have a better fortune than if they stayed behind. Many South Carolina plantations got their start from such sons & sugar island money.

 

[Artificer]

Durs Egg (1745–1822) was a Swiss-born British gunmaker, noted for his flintlock pistols and for his company's production of the Ferguson rifle. Egg was apprenticed in Solothurn and Paris and to get religious freedom, he originally planned to emigrate to the American colonies after the religious group he was with stopped off in England around 1768 to earn more money to pay for that future extended voyage. He established his own business in London in 1772, though I'm not sure if he had passed the Gunmaker's Guild's Masters Exam when he established his shop in 1772. However, he got a chance to be taught engraving and fancy stock carving, so he made more money doing work for the English Nobility, the British Government and later even "royal" quality gun work for the Prince of Wales. That paid well enough he decided to remain in England while his religious group emigrated to America. Some of his progeny did eventually emigrate here, as my third or fourth Great Grandfather's Brother married a daughter of Egg's line here in America in the 19th century.

Since here in the colonies, we had no Guild Halls or Guild System, once a man completed his apprenticeship to a colonial gunsmith and effectively became what was known as a Journeyman in Europe - he was free to remain working in his master's shop or travel to set up his own shop. I can't remember his name now, but the first gunsmith to set up shop in KY was such a "Journeyman."

Gus

 

[Artificer]

PS "Gunstocker" was a common term throughout England during the 18th century and probably before that. That because gunmaking was broken down into 13 to over 20 specialized "sub trades" that concentrated on making or only doing part of making entire guns. By concentrating on a part of the trade, it cost less to set up a shop and they worked more profitably.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

PS "Gunstocker" was a common term throughout England during the 18th century and probably before that. That because gunmaking was broken down into 13 to over 20 specialized "sub trades" that concentrated on making or only doing part of making entire guns. By concentrating on a part of the trade, it cost less to set up a shop and they worked more profitably.

Gus

The emboldened text explains the "factory system" set up in England for many trades and is why most colonial gunsmiths may have only made one entire gun from scratch in their careers, to become a journeyman. They could not compete with how cheap ready made guns could be imported from Europe.

This is also why no major gunmaking firms were set up here until the necessity to do so during the AWI.

Gus

 

[ronaldrothb49]

Durs Egg (1745–1822) was a Swiss-born British gunmaker, noted for his flintlock pistols and for his company's production of the Ferguson rifle. Egg was apprenticed in Solothurn and Paris and to get religious freedom, he originally planned to emigrate to the American colonies after the religious group he was with stopped off in England around 1768 to earn more money to pay for that future extended voyage. He established his own business in London in 1772, though I'm not sure if he had passed the Gunmaker's Guild's Masters Exam when he established his shop in 1772. However, he got a chance to be taught engraving and fancy stock carving, so he made more money doing work for the English Nobility, the British Government and later even "royal" quality gun work for the Prince of Wales. That paid well enough he decided to remain in England while his religious group emigrated to America. Some of his progeny did eventually emigrate here, as my third or fourth Great Grandfather's Brother married a daughter of Egg's line here in America in the 19th century.

Since here in the colonies, we had no Guild Halls or Guild System, once a man completed his apprenticeship to a colonial gunsmith and effectively became what was known as a Journeyman in Europe - he was free to remain working in his master's shop or travel to set up his own shop. I can't remember his name now, but the first gunsmith to set up shop in KY was such a "Journeyman."

Gus

From what I have seen Michael Humble is listed as the first to open a gunsmith shop here in Kentucky in 1782 in what became Louisville. Interesting info on Durs Egg, I did not know he had been trained in France.

 

[Artificer]

From what I have seen Michael Humble is listed as the first to open a gunsmith shop here in Kentucky in 1782 in what became Louisville. Interesting info on Durs Egg, I did not know he had been trained in France.

Michael is the KY gunsmith, whose name I couldn't remember. Thank you!

Gus

 

[oldwood]

Always bear this in mind. Europe has been run by social dictatorships for hundreds of years. In other words , kings , queens , dukes , barons , etc. , that ruled what individuals with value to the hierarchy could work at their trades , train new tradesmen , open a business , etc.. Also , the entire upper structure was controlled by the approved religion , that was the Roman Catholic Church. If you weren't a member of the Church of Rome , IE. a Baptist , Lutheran , or any other Protestant group , You might be scheduled to hold the horse of a nobleman as your life's work. Many subjugated tradesmen bailed out of Europe to work here in America , where the need for gun builders , was very great , that need allowed free enterprise to bring the craft to where it was most needed , for instance , the Moravian Brotherhood came from Wesrern Europe to Nazareth , Pa. , and Christian springs , Pa. in about 1740. There was a great need among folks living on the edge of the frontier for blacksmiths , and naturally , gun builders. Also , another frontier craft , and religious settlement was made around 1750 called Salem , in N.C.. Same reasoning prevailed there , the Moravian Brotherhood saw a need , and it was their mission to fill it. Both these religious groups brought needed tradesmen from Western Europe , and those tradesmen performed gunsmithing , and blacksmithing , and trained new gunsmiths , etc. that eventually sprung off from their teachers , to establish frontier services on their own. The system of European guilds , was eventually eliminated on the frontier in America. Another salient fact from Western European Moravian rifle building in Eastern Pa. , is this. As hunters came back from the woods from using their short barreled large cal. Jager style rifles , copied from what the western European hunters were used to using , complaints of American hunters having to take too much bullet lead used to feed Jager type guns , as well as the short barrel lengths seen in Jager rifles greatly limited the distance accurate shots could be attempted. So , the Moravian gunsmiths lowered the calibers giving more balls per pound of lead, and lengthened the gun barrels giving a longer sight plain for greater accuracy at longer distances. Thus , the American longrifle was born out of necessity. Hunters could pay their expenses , and more people could eat the meat brought in to market.

 

[Sylvester Pattie]

I have an ancestor who immigrated to Virginia Colony in the 1760s. He was a Journeyman Armorer who earned his journeyman status under his father who was a Master Armorer in London. I have not found out what he did in Virginia before the Revolution, but he was an early volunteer who joined the 2nd Virginia Artillery Regiment. I am still trying to get the details on his military service. Right now I just have approximate dates.

Would an armorer have been casting or assembling cannons in Virginia? Would he have been repairing cannons for his regiment during the war? I am not really sure what a master armorer did in London. Large guns or small arms or fancy dress suits of armor for nobility? Anybody here know?

 

[springfield art]

I attached a link to an article I read on a different page I also follow on Andreaus Albrecht which you can read. He was the individual who Started the Christian Springs Gun shop. What really surprised me is he was apprenticed as a Gun Stocker. Now that is a term I have heard many times about those of us who make guns today but I had never heard that term for anyone from 2 or 3 hundred years ago. The first person that popped into my head was Wolfgang Haga. No gun has ever been found that he signed. Of the rifles that Shumay and Kindig say may have been made by him are described as well made with beautiful carving but none are engraved. So I have to wonder if he never learned to do that because he was only a gun
stocker.
Well I have wondered for a long time how many of the gunsmiths who came here were actually a Master. The gun trade at that time was tightly controlled by the Guilds at that time and the only way to become a master was if the masters of your Guild Hall approved that. Only a master could open a gun shop. It benefited the masters to limit the number who became a master. It controlled competition. The market for their product they made was limited. They probably would need a patron, a prince, a duke, a count etc. Someone who needed to keep an armed force if for no other reason than to protect themselves. There weren't that many rich people around and the peasants could no afford guns. Secondly it kept and experienced pool of Journeymen who would be required to work for the masters if they wanted to practice their trade. Third it limited where someone could apprentice and they pretty much worked for room and board.

My question is how many that came here do you think were actually Masters or perhaps very experienced Journeymen who felt they would never become a master. Or perhaps a journeyman who just didn't want to work for someone else. Then you have the ones who just finished an apprenticeship and said I know everything and headed for the colonies. There are rifles that can be classified as the work of a master. then we have work that just not quiet there. and goes down from there.

What do you think?
Ground rules Everyone has an opinion and they have the right to express it
There will be no criticizing of someone else's opinion If you have nothing good to say about someone's post Don't push the reply button
Don't attack anyone we all have a right to our own opinion

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It's wonderful to see people studying this type of history! Best of luck with your endeavors!