Early Plainsmen Era 1841 to 1860

I am with Ohio Joe with keeping it simple and inexpensive. I think, after participating in some shoots, you will be in the maelstrom for reenacting or at least period acceptable clothing (and vice versa). I already have the bug and picked up some books from my library this weekend, covering the era in discussion.

My gun-club in my old country (South-Western Germany) was set-up with rules from the matchlock-era (30 years war) that could be contribute to the ideas already in the making. But 1st, I have to find them, and 2nd, I have to translate. As I remember, there were a lot of fine ideas in there, the club was rather informal than formal, a rare thing in Old G (may be that's why I joined them!).

 

[rayb]

RobW and Ohio Joe have the right ideas. Simple is better.

I've bought and read some of the cowboy action mags to see if i'd like that and it looks more like a costume thing with squib loaded small caliber high dollar custom equipment :imo: than i want to get into. I think the folks that do that truly enjoy what they're doing and more power to them. After all they are shooting , buying guns, etc. and even more important it looks like there are families involved. It just isn't quite what i want to do.

This early plainsman idea sounds simple and more informal / financialy friendly. I'd travel up to 400 miles to go to an inagural event...

has anyone worked up a match yet? The "scenarios" that the cowboy action people use could be a sort of guide to designing a match if kept simple without 3 or 4 guns and lots of "ammunition" being required.


:m2c:

rayb

 

[Ohio Joe]

rayb,

I was going to bring up the idea at our monthly shoot this past Sunday after we were finished with the match and having our meeting, but my brother-inlaw had a stroke and I had to leave early to go to Scottsbluff. I will try again in November at the gong shoot. Brother-inlaw is stable.

Funny how things work out? I had a run of six bullseye's before getting called away. Family things are more important. We were shooting at scaled down 1874, and 1876
Creedmoor targets that were printed on 8" x 11" beige paper.
We were shooting at 25, 50, and 75 yards. The 75 yard target was scaled to closely resemble what those guys would
have seen at 900 yards back in those days which was a 6 ft.
by 12 ft. target. We use only traditional muzzle loaders
with patched round ball.

How far is the Texas Panhandle to the northwestern Panhandle of Nebraska. I bet a bit more then 400 miles?
However, if we get something a going, I'll sure let you guys on the forum know! :thumbsup:

 

[crockett]

Sign me up too. I had the same idea but never did anything about it. Most folks buy a Hawken rifle and a percussion revolver. They are then told their gear is all wrong for a Pre-1840 Rondy. No seed beads, no rawhide soled moccasins, few if any Hawkens, no green river knives. After a while I decided this just doesn't make sense. Why not have something that works with the Hawken and the Percussion pistol.
Events could be a sort of chuck gun with the Hawken and a fairly fast, timed pistol. We could even do something like a tracking contest, a committee laying out the trail. Possibilites are endless!

 

[rayb]

"Most folks buy a Hawken rifle and a percussion revolver."

I think Crockett has the right idea on the equipment issue.

I think he's saying a rifle target(s) plus a pistol target(s) with an aggregate of the 2 for an overall winner?

Basically any general muzzleloading rifle, flint or percussion, for x number of shots on some targets to be selected, maybe animal silouhete (sp?)or somthing relevant to survival in that period. What about sights? fixed only?, or adjustable allowed???

For pistol, any percussion revolver, say 5 shots on a ?? target of some type... Same thing on sights. Do we allow Ruger Old Army with adjustable sights? or specify fixed sights?

it's about 550 miles to NW Nebraska, so I'm going to start saving up gas money....

rayb

 

[Ohio Joe]

The Ruger question is a good one. If it were allowed, would we have to allow the percussion 1873 that is being sold by Cabella's??? I hate to rule the Ruger out, but I don't really see its place in this unless we "class" the firearms? I certainly don't see the 1873 percussion's place. How about;

Class 1: Rifle and Revolver/Pistol, fixed iron sights only
Class 2: Rifle and Revolver/Pistol, open iron sights

I would like to see an aggregate of at least 40 shots overall with rifle and handgun. 20 shot by each, and maybe shot in 4 rounds of 5 shots with each, equalling 10 shots per round?

I'd hate to have to see you drive all this way for just 10 shots, "rayb"... We have to make these trips worthwild to burn some powder and throw some lead.

Thoughts?

 

[crockett]

For those interested in clothing, etc, the Museum of the Fur Trade in Chandron, NE(they have a web site) sells a sketch book on Scouts, Etc during this time period. I think this was a time when a lot of different types were crossing trails. If we have to be too strict on the time we run into a lot of issues. Pre-1860 would exclude the Colt 1860 Army revolver but a 1859 Sharps would be valid. Some limits need be set. For the rifle, it must be a side lock muzzle loader,preferrably of a plains style. For the pistol it ought to be any percussion revolver.
What kind out shooting would have been done during the era? There could be a buffalo-cross sticks event at say 200 yards. There could be a 100 yard rifle- Indian event. On the Indian you could come to the line in a safe manner and hold the rifle on half cock pointing towards the ground. On "fire" you have one second (or two) to raise the rifle and fire.
The pistol could be 25 or 50 yards. 6 seconds, 6 shots. To simulate an Indian charge.

 

[Ravenx]

I think a muzzleloading rifle of era-design would be appropriate. Plus, a revolver of era design. But let's make it so a guy with just a rifle can compete in a match. In cowboy action shooting, you have to have two sixguns, a rifle and a shotgun to enter. To me, that's too much cash layout and that's why I never bothered with cowboy action shooting. How about some other fun competitions, too? A period cook-off, say, everyone gets to sample the grub and vote on which is best. Shooting is hungry work and it could be fun to have a pot of beans and salt pork a-bubblin' while shooting and see if you win. I remember out at the touristy "ghost town" of Calico out near Barstow, California, they had this frontier mining days event. They actually had a chewing tobacco spitting contest for distance. Last I was there, they had a sign up saying who the winner was and how far he spit. Don't recall the distance, but I remember the sign said he used Beech Nut loose-leaf chew.

 

[rayb]

I sure do like Raven's cook off idea. But lets make it more interesting and not allow charcoal, just cow chips(buffalo chips being somewhat scarce) for fuel :: well maybe a few sticks of wood, but no split imported eastern hardwood

Crockett provided some good info on dress, but it makes me nervous to talk about that...i get visions of the movie cowboy stuff that kind of turned me off to cowboy action..
Those that want to should be able to go full out, but we need to let those who really like to shoot to do so without a bunch of expense. I'll let the others sort that out, it really does make me nervous.....

Ohio Joe's Classes are a great solution to the equipment issue.

So to recap :imo:

1. we have 2 classes, each with rifle & pistol (i suppose a single shot can still participate as well as revolver?) about 40 shots per match on 2 - 4 different tatgets. Say buffalo, "charging indian" (or maybe "charging cavalry soldier"(?) since there were 2 sides to the issue), running deer, and some others.
Saw something on another thread about a rifle shot, followed by 5 or 6 pistol rounds; that could be a scenario for one match.

2. we have a dress or costume issue to sort out

3. Part of the overall score includes some kind of points for cooking... say 1 for beans, 2 for meat, 3 for some kind of bread. ?or do you want to have a "taste test" type of contest?

I think you should be required to be able to pack everything in some kind of bag and carry it a ways..maybe not physically carry it like in a foot race, but don't let someone bring a semi-truck load of equipment in. Whatever is used in the competition has to be entered and gaged as to portability....i'm not very big so can't carry too much anyway....


:m2c:

rayb

 

Lots of good ideas here!

(i suppose a single shot can still participate as well as revolver?)

I would say yes, as long as it's a percussion. Flintlock is covered by the Mountain-Men brother(sister)hood. It would make an extremely inexpensive way to get a foot in it.

One problem I see at the beginning is the few and widespread followership we have. Working 2 jobs, I don't have too much time to travel (let alone the money). Raven's Flagstaff would be the only destination for me (250 miles distance), at least once in a while.

What about something like the "Muzzleloading Rifle Competition" set up by webmaster? Just on an "honesty" basis to get started?

I found a nice "Wild West Time Chart" in a book and scaned it. It prints out on a "Tabloid"-sized sheet. It is too large to post here (1.5 MB JPEG). If you are interested, just drop me an e-mail, I'll send the chart back as an attachment back to you.

 

Lots of good ideas here!

(i suppose a single shot can still participate as well as revolver?)

I would say yes, as long as it's a percussion. Flintlock is covered by the Mountain-Men brother(sister)hood. It would make an extremely inexpensive way to get a foot in it.

One problem I see at the beginning is the few and widespread followship we have. Working 2 jobs, I don't have too much time to travel (let alone the money). Raven's Flagstaff would be the only destination for me (250 miles distance), at least once in a while.

What about something like the "Muzzleloading Rifle Competition" set up by webmaster? Just on an "honesty" basis to get started?

I'll try to get people at my gun-clubs interested in it.

I found a nice "Wild West Time Chart" in a book and scanned it. It prints out on a "Tabloid"-sized sheet. It is too large to post here (1.5 MB JPEG). If you are interested, just drop me an e-mail, I'll send the chart back as an attachment back to you.

 

[Ohio Joe]

I will set a date for a "Plainsman Shoot" at our next monthly shoot, November 28, 2004... I'll list it in our newsletter as a schedule addition for 2005.

I'm not going to release a shoot program just yet, but it will require, Revolver or Pistol (your choice), and Rifle events. I may even try to schedule two of these shoots. Muzzle loading firearms only of course.

I think the way to build this is through the shooting competitions and let it escalate into a broader interest of events from the time period we've discussed. :thumbsup:

 

[rayb]

Thanks Ohio Joe for agreeing to get something set up. Please keep us posted on the final format. RobW has a good idea on the honesty or postal match.

This forum and NMLRA are both running such competitions as we speak.

I hope you have a great shoot in November and can get something scheduled. Keep us posted. I need an excuse to go to NW Nebraska...

Thanks again for your efforts.

rayb

 

[Choctaw]

The era of the Republic of Texas was from 1836 to 1845. This was a very interesting time, and it is a passion for many of us trekkers/living historians here in Texas. As far as revolvers, the Paterson through the 1851 Navys would be correct depending exactly on which year you are portraying. However, I strongly suggest against carrying a Walker on your hip for longer than ten minutes at a time. ::

 

[rayb]

Choctaw has a good idea also.

How about a Republic if Texas match? limited to arms known to be used by the Republic

Patterson revolvers

Hall Carbines ?

Bess type muskets - as captured from the Mexican Army at San Jacinto

?Colt revolving rifles? - used in the Mier raid

I have a book somewhere titled Arms for Texas or something like that did a good job cataloging what was used by the republic. When / if i get it unpacked from moving i'll try to get together a complete list

I think there was a reference to the jenks breechloader as well

of course the match would have to be located somewhere in the original Republic.....

rayb