effective range

[kemart17]

i know effective range is based on loading, choke, and shot size. that being said, on a standard heavy load, what is expected effective range. i never had a blk powder shotgun, looking for a 12 ga to work with for crow hunting. thanks

 

[azmntman]

Feltwad shoots crows, he will know

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

i know effective range is based on loading, choke, and shot size. that being said, on a standard heavy load, what is expected effective range. i never had a blk powder shotgun, looking for a 12 ga to work with for crow hunting. thanks

You have stated items of information needed to determine effective range, but did not enter any. How about choke & shot size? The shotgunners already know what a heavy load is. I am sure you will get your answer then.

 

[bisleyjohn]

any help?

 

[Britsmoothy]

30yds plus. Under 40yds for reliability.

 

[Feltwad]

i know effective range is based on loading, choke, and shot size. that being said, on a standard heavy load, what is expected effective range. i never had a blk powder shotgun, looking for a 12 ga to work with for crow hunting. thanks

The 12 bore sxs is the best has for the load it all depends on the type of shooting . it may be different in the States but in the UK shooting over decoys on land where they are feeding causing damage is the best for which I personal use a load of 2.3/4 drms of medium grade black powder to 1.1/8 oz of no 5or 6 shot.
Do not think you can hunt [shoot ] crows using the same tactics has walking up game birds it will never happen , you need them to come to you and decoying is the best method. the load that I mention will kill well at 30 to 35 yards to shoot over 40 to 50 will on may occasions' only wound to increase the load for long shots will have little effect so stick to the 30 to 35 yard range.
Feltwad

 

[Musketeer]

30yds plus. Under 40yds for reliability.

I always pictured you loading your Bess with 200 grains of 4f, 3 oz of shot, and shooting down pheasants over France, then your poor dog swimming across the Channel and back to retrieve them.

 

[Kmcmichael]

newbie question, sort of.
the conversion to smokeless powder should not extend the range of a shotgun. Breechloading just provided a higher round of fire. The plastic wad DID extend range somewhat. If one uses non lead other than bismith, that range is shortened. Why would a shotgun of today have a drastically different range of one 140 years ago? I know the choke came around in the 1880s. most people of today use more choke than needed for wing-shooting.
are typical muzzle loaders not choked?

 

[Britsmoothy]

I always pictured you loading your Bess with 200 grains of 4f, 3 oz of shot, and shooting down pheasants over France, then your poor dog swimming across the Channel and back to retrieve them.

Dont give me ideas

 

[Britsmoothy]

newbie question, sort of.
the conversion to smokeless powder should not extend the range of a shotgun. Breechloading just provided a higher round of fire. The plastic wad DID extend range somewhat. If one uses non lead other than bismith, that range is shortened. Why would a shotgun of today have a drastically different range of one 140 years ago? I know the choke came around in the 1880s. most people of today use more choke than needed for wing-shooting.
are typical muzzle loaders not choked?

Yes and no....smokeless has increased velocity compared to a muzzleloader. The shotgun cartridge with black powder alone can show higher velocity than a muzzleloader. Does that mean it is better? Not necessarily but it can with the addition of choke make for an increase in range, again not necessarily better!

 

[Art Caputo]

For crows, out to 40 yards with at least 1 Oz of size 6 or even 7 1/2 shot has worked well for me using an open choke. Compared to passing ducks and driven pheasants, a crows thinner underside and wing structure is more vulnerable.

 

[Kmcmichael]

Yes and no....smokeless has increased velocity compared to a muzzleloader. The shotgun cartridge with black powder alone can show higher velocity than a muzzleloader. Does that mean it is better? Not necessarily but it can with the addition of choke make for an increase in range, again not necessarily better!

How much was velocity increased? I assumed the black powder shotguns could achieve 1300 FPS? Your not gaining anything past that and the added pressure widens the patterns.
Choke came to be used around 1880? I remember that Greener claimed the invention but there was a Fowler in the US using it long before. I think it was simultaneously invented.
Actually other than Turkey, the vast majority of upland hunters would be better off without choke. Here in the USA many have illogical ideas regarding shotgun performance. I assume the average shooter would be the criteria for this.

I am ignorant of muzzle loaders only. I’ve studied internal shotgun ballistics for many years...not that I remember much of it.

Why does the cartridge increase velocity over the muzzle loader? Was it a better seal?

BTW I’ve always want to shoot driven birds. I did get measurements for an English SxS but went another avenue.

 

[Bob McBride]

The 12 bore sxs is the best has for the load it all depends on the type of shooting . it may be different in the States but in the UK shooting over decoys on land where they are feeding causing damage is the best for which I personal use a load of 2.3/4 drms of medium grade black powder to 1.1/8 oz of no 5or 6 shot.
Do not think you can hunt [shoot ] crows using the same tactics has walking up game birds it will never happen , you need them to come to you and decoying is the best method. the load that I mention will kill well at 30 to 35 yards to shoot over 40 to 50 will on may occasions' only wound to increase the load for long shots will have little effect so stick to the 30 to 35 yard range.
Feltwad

Agreed.

Crows are my favorite. They are smart. Decoys, predator call, and patience.

40y max effective with 35y being ideal, to 50y with the right choke and load. Beyond 50y is hit or miss in my experience unless youre using the equivelant of a 3” to 3.5” Goose shell through a Turkey choke which has twice the recoil of a regular 12g load. No fun, especially aimed near vertical as you may with crow.

 

[Feltwad]

BTW I’ve always want to shoot driven birds. I did get measurements for an English SxS but went another avenue.

If a good team of beaters push the birds at a moderate pace shooting driven pheasant with a muzzle loader is truly living the past , to do it justice it is best when two shooters are too one stand [peg]with one shooting while the other loads then change after each shot. Always remember one bird killed with a muzzle loading shotgun is better than 10 with a modern over and under You really have too concentrate on each shot which hopefully ends with a kill which you remember for many years too come
Feltwad

 

[Grenadier1758]

Great Picture. I can see the column of shot ahead of the ball of flame.

 

[kemart17]

Agreed.

Crows are my favorite. They are smart. Decoys, predator call, and patience.

40y max effective with 35y being ideal, to 50y with the right choke and load. Beyond 50y is hit or miss in my experience unless youre using the equivelant of a 3” to 3.5” Goose shell through a Turkey choke which has twice the recoil of a regular 12g load. No fun, especially aimed near vertical as you may with crow.

thanks for the info, i have shot tons of crows with the other type of shotgun. really think will be fun to shoot them with blk powder shotgun.

 

[Kmcmichael]

Agreed.

Crows are my favorite. They are smart. Decoys, predator call, and patience.

40y max effective with 35y being ideal, to 50y with the right choke and load. Beyond 50y is hit or miss in my experience unless youre using the equivelant of a 3” to 3.5” Goose shell through a Turkey choke which has twice the recoil of a regular 12g load. No fun, especially aimed near vertical as you may with crow.

Do you gave chokes in your muzzle loader?

 

[JCKelly]

Living in the past, before wild pheasants became extinct here, I recall a few didn't seem to notice that I was downing them with a 12ga antique, I presume not choked.
I am a lousy shotgunner, used what I thought an appropriate load for a black powder 12.
You guys impress me w your deep shotgun knowledge. I just shot the thing.

 

[Kmcmichael]

I hunted pheasant in several states, mostly Oklahoma. They had a drought and the birds disappeared. Which few birds, pheasant hunting quickly becomes a bunch of idiots walking through a cornfield. When the drought had diminished it seems some of my hunting partners had died off and the remaining did not want to go anymore.

 

[Bob McBride]

Do you gave chokes in your muzzle loader?

Sure. Some of my originals are choked and several of my customs are jugged or otherwise traditionally choked. Many are not and are mostly useless against high fliers and to my point, unless youre using a factory ML with modern Full+ chokes you‘re limited to 35-40y. Mostly.