Effective range?

[xia_emperor]

What is the effective range of a smooth bore VS rifled?

:hmm:

 

[chuck-ia]

some say they are as accurate as one with rifling out to 50 yards. I would think to do that you would have to have a rear sight on it. I have a .62 smoothbore that is pretty accurate at 25 yards, can shoot pretty much a 3" group offhand, (for me that is good) opens up a bit at 50 though. I honestly think if I put a rear sight on this gun that it would shoot pretty close to a 3-4" group at 50 yards off a rest. I just can't bring myself to put a rear sight on though. flinch

 

[TN.Frank]

Effective range and Practical range are two very different things. If a ball shot from a shoothbore will kill way beyond the range that you can effectively hit something that you aim at. Practically, I'd say 50-75 yrds if you know your gun pretty well.

 

[TANSTAAFL]

What is the effective range of a smooth bore VS a rifle?

:hmm:

The maximum range for any gun is what a "GIVEN" individual can effectively hit what they shoot at with said gun.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Obviously, Longbow, much depends on the caliber and gauge of the rifle and smoothbore. There are modern shotguns( smoothbores) that shoot at targets out at 200 yds, with some fine accuracy. Certainly it can be done with BL smoothbores, too. But, most shooters would limit the smoothbore to 100 yds, or just a few yards beyond. If you look at tables for the velocity and energy levels of a round ball at these distances, they lose a lot of velocity and begin to drop dramatically with each yard they travel. Its hard enough to accurately estimate yardage. If you add to that problem figuring out how much to hold over the target to hit it at the longer ranges, using open sights, or, sometimes, only a front sight, You get an ideal of the complexities of shooting a smoothbore at longer ranges.

The rifle imparts a spin to the ball, which contributes to its in flight stability, and allows it also to slip through the air, maintaining a little more velocity, and shedding velocity slower than a round ball shot out of a smoothbore. Still, a 200 yd. shot with a PRB in a rifle is a long shot, with many of the same problems you have with smoothbores. The Round Ball is aerodynamically awful, and sheds velocity so fast it too drops significanly when you push the targets out past 100 yds.

There are recorded instances of Riflemen killing enemy officers at 300 yds, with a PRB. No one denies that. But these men had grown up with their guns, shot them every day, and shot them at all kinds of distances. They knew their guns, much better than most current owners do. Such a long shot would involve a lot of luck for most of us, including me! The main reason is I have never been to a range with a 300 yd. range so I could find out where to hold my sights to hit even a man on a horse at that distance.

At 100 yds, you can expect a rifle to group 5 shots in 3 inches, or as well as you can shoot open sights. Put one of those new-fangles " Scopes" on a gun, and you probalby can reduce that group size in half.

With the smoothbore, the groups at 100 yds, are probably going to be closer to 5 inches, and a scope sight would reduce them to maybe 3 inches. There are exceptional guns and loads out their, being shot by exceptional shooters, who can sometimes do better at that distance with open sights, but more of us would shoot much larger groups than the 5 inches I have indicated for an average. Still, a .62 caliber round ball hitting within 2.5 inches of where you aim at a deer, shot broadside, is going to bring home venison everytime, if you are shooting at the middle of its side, behind the shoulder. A .50 caliber RB will do the same out of a rifle, and shoot much closer to the POA.

Smoothbores, as big game guns, are used where shots are going to be shorter than 100 yds, and often closer tian 50 yds. We are talking about river bottoms, wooded areas, ravines, and anywhere else that farmers cannot get a plow into. In these places, the brush and trees are so thick, its difficult to see a deer at 100 yds, much less get a clean shot( unobstructed by branches or bushes) at a deer.

I know of one deer killed with a smoothbore and PRB at a measured 125 yds, that dropped in its tracks. I also know of a deer shot at 175 yds with a modern shotgun shooting a foster style slug. It also died on the spot. A third deer was killed standing on one ridge line by a hunter on the next ridge line over, a shot that had to exceed 175 yds, again with a shotgun slug. So, the ammo can do it, with a lot of luck getting a hit at those ranges.

Pick the gun for the terraine you expect to hunt, and then practice a lot with it.Those heavy round balls can still kill and hurt somneone at well over 300 yds, so always make sure you have a safe backstop before shooting at anything, including game.

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

Here's something to think about...

According to reliable sources...
A smoothbore modern shotgun with foster type slugs is supposedly only "effective" to 75 yards, yet a "rifled" shotgun firing saboted slugs is "effective" to 125 yards.

I'd say that is pretty darned close to, (if not exactly), how I would compare smooth to rifled bore muzzleloaders using patched round balls.

Regards, and shoot safely! Watch that backstop...
WV_Hillbilly

 

[Mike Brooks]

I had a 28 bore (.55) Type G trade gun with a 48" barrel that would shoot as well as a rifle out to 75 yards. Of course it was partly due to my experience with that particular gun too, it was the only gun I shot for 6 or 8 years.
I've found that the smaller bore smooth bores shoot better than the larger bores. Others opinions probably vary. :winking:

 

[xia_emperor]

I am shooting Cap and ball at the moment, and I just wanted more info on smoothbores since I was thinking of getting one. I live and hunt in Colorado, and just wanted to find out what are the major differences between the two. I remember watching a show on the change over from smoothbore to rifled and how it made troops more effective, and how it increase the effective range of Cannons as well. I am not trying to start a fight or to say that if the effective range was less that I not buy one any ways. Thanks, for your help.

 

[musketman]

What is the effective range of a smooth bore VS rifled?

:hmm:

Assuming they both are the same caliber and barrel length with the same charge...

The smoothbore should be able to hold it's own out to around ~75 yards, again, like others have stated before me, it all comes down to the one doing the shooting...

 

[xia_emperor]

OK I do understand that each person is bifferent and that changes the equashion. Hell, with my longbow I have out shot Compounds. this does not mean that I am any good or that my long bow is better then a Compound. just that the other guy was not any good.

let fix the equation. with same caliber, same berral lenghts, and weight of the muskets, and same person shooting both the same amount of time and loves to shoot both equaly.
:thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Again, off the bench, to reduce human error, the smoothbore is about as accurate as a rifle out to approx. 75 yds. It begins coming down through the sound barrier between this distance and 100 yds, and that transonic zone does some nasty things to a RB particularly when its not spinning. The smaller gauge smootbore guns tend to shoot more accurately than the larger gauges, but a round ball is a round ball, and about 75 yds is all you can expect one to shoot as accurately as a RB shot out of a rifled barrel. The rifle will win the accuracy issue at distance from 80 yds and beyond. The spinning ball slips the air currents a bit, and takes just a little longer to hit that transonic zone. Because it is spinning, the air and vacuum pressures on the RB do not affect the spinning RB as much as they do a ball that is not spinning.

If I were living and hunting in Colorado, depending on what animal I was hunting, and where I was going to hunt them, I would probaly lean toward a rifle rather than a smoothbore. But, having said that, there are a lot of deer killed in Colorado at distances of 75 yds and under each year, so if you choose a smoothbore, you are not handicapping yourself very much.

 

[xia_emperor]

Thank you very much! I am hunting in the front range. well either way it should be fun to buy one and shoot it. now I just need to figure out which one to buy. :grin:

 

[bnail]

I had a 28 bore (.55) Type G trade gun with a 48" barrel that would shoot as well as a rifle out to 75 yards. Of course it was partly due to my experience with that particular gun too, it was the only gun I shot for 6 or 8 years.
I've found that the smaller bore smooth bores shoot better than the larger bores. Others opinions probably vary. :winking:

Yeah, and the best part is Mike gaurantees his guns' accuracy out to 200 yards, or your money back :winking:

 

[Russianblood]

Me pesonally, I'm good to 50yds with my smoothbores. Beyond that, it's pure luck if I hit anything. My smoothbores are all trade gun configuration with no rear sights.

 

[faw3]

WV dont know which shotgun your talking about but back in 69 or 70 in R of VN we played with a smooth shotgun that would nail a man to a tree at 100 and kill him at 200. Not sure of the slug they cost to much now days to cut one open. Sometime when I feel good I'll put the scope on the 20/62 and go out and give it a work out, ( its not the kind you screw on -one of those Dixie magnet and screw on side holders, but I'll be a little shy of pulling the trigger on a 600 ball and 80 grs, works great on the 53 Hawken, but.... :grin: I want to keep my eye! Fred :hatsoff: ( this will just take care of the sight part, another barrel, or load , or shooter could come up with a whole new target.) If its been done let me know please, save some wear and tear on this old body.

 

[TN.Frank]

Now if ya' want to talk about shooting shot, well then, the smoothbore winds hands down,LOL. If I could only have one muzzleloader it'd be a smoothbore because I can shoot shot or ball in it, with a rifle you're pretty much stuck with ball.

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

WV dont know which shotgun your talking about but back in 69 or 70 in R of VN we played with a smooth shotgun that would nail a man to a tree at 100 and kill him at 200. Not sure of the slug they cost to much now days to cut one open.

The source I was looking at was just a typical Rem. 870 smoothbore and same gun with swapped barrel to the rifled bore. I know they (Rem., Win., and Mossberg) sell some combination guns that come with both barrels and the rifled one has open sights usually.

I am familiar with a much better slug pusher being the H&R/NEF Ultra 12 gauge that uses a 10 gauge barrel blank and mounts a standard rifle scope. I haven't shot many of the really expensive sabot slugs, but the Brenneke KO slugs work quite well, and in the NEF can easily make 200yd shots--if sighted in properly.

That particular NEF took out many groundhogs from a prone position with bipod. Yeah, not your typical varmint rig, huh? BUT, I'm getting off topic now... That was one of those guns that was bought on a whim and sold off almost as quickly. (Besides prior to that sell-off I had a torn rotator cuff and some nerve damage--not from the recoil, but from a work related incident).

I just recently watched a smoothbore .69 just demolish targets that some rifled guns were having trouble with. I've seen a few Renegade .56cal smoothbores that shot much better than the .54 rifled versions--virtually the same gun! Again, the shooter has something to do with the results, but the gun and how well it's loaded has a big influence on the results as well.

Shoot Safely, and Regards!
WV_Hillbilly

 

[faw3]

For the life of me I cant remember the shotgun they used for these it was a otc job, the real killer was the Mod 97 Wins 12 it goes boom as the slide closes and filled with the fletchett rounds they tested then was a killer wayyy out. Ive used Brenneke slugs for years but not since I went to BP only ya couldnt beat them back 10 to 20 yrs ago. Its 4 am I was hurting real bad and just got on a sec I may try to shoot that in the morrning Im kind of wondering what this old 20/62 relly will do i see the "Q" up here so often, but it will be just this UH perc with 60 to 80 loads and a 600 ball so i dont know if it will show a thing except what a bad shot ive got to be. :rotf: Fred :hatsoff:

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Well Longbow, now these guys have me confused. Having been on this forum a couple of years now, I'd gotten the impression that most smoothbore shooters would be very pleased with 50 yard groups of 3-4 inches. Now the consensus seems to be "shoots like a rifle to 75 yards". I'd be very disappointed in a rifle that couldn't do better than 3" at fifty. So it sounds like some smoothbores must become more accurate past fifty and then fall off again past 75.
I believe it might be better put like this, "shoots ALMOST like a rifle at fifty and still marginally adequate at seventy-five". Now there are exceptional guns and exceptional shooters but I think that would define reasonable expectation.
For deer and elk in Colorado you definitely will want a rifle. I have taken deer, elk and antelope at less than 50 yards but I'd sure hate to be limited to that.
Now I hope some real smoothbore experts will tell us all just what sort of groups they really do expect at 75 and 100 yards and what is the secret they have that I don't know about. :grin:

 

[Mikey the Barbarian]

My Mike Brooks .55 cal smooth will shoot 3" or less groups at 50 yards. At 75 yards its about 5 inche or less group, or in 'redneck' measurements,,softball size at 75 yards. I have killed two deer at appx 80 and 90 yards with this gun,,,the 80 yard one droped dead, the 90 yard one walked three steps. I conceed that to shoot at 100 yards your reaching the ranger where a rifled gun will usually remain more consistent than a smooth gun. I also agree that my .55 cal is more accurate over 50 yards than my .66 fowler, although id not hesitate to shoot a 75 yard deer with my .66 Brooks smooth fowler. Im a HUGE smooth gun fan and will accept any limitations just to use one. Its just all I shoot, so by not relying on a rifled barrel, perhaps iv came to understand smoothies. Others im sure have different opinions.