Eli Whitney

[hrt4me]

Do any of you have any Eli Whitney revolvers? I would be interested in seeing your originals (and even modern reproductions as well)...

 

[Zonie]

These are my Whitney and my Spiller & Burr. I'd like to show more but they were stolen out of my house about 6 years ago.

 

[sourdough]

Spiller & Burr were entrepreneurs, while Burton (CSA) was the main impetus for the revolver to get it approved for the Confederate Government contract. The original contract for the CSA was supposed to be for 1851 Navy .36 copies, but when S&B bought out a rifle manufacturing company's revolver assets, that included the tooling for Whitney revolvers. S&B created the same revolver in both the Whitney 1st Model and the 2nd Model only in a brass frame. The 2nd Model is what prevailed.

It has been said that parts from the original Whitney are interchangeable with the original Confederate S&B as they were produced on the same tooling.

Regards,

Jim

 

[Ponderosaman]

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View attachment 78980
These are my Whitney and my Spiller & Burr. I'd like to show more but they were stolen out of my house about 6 years ago.

Do you know who it was, let’s get those ...........

 

[Zonie]

Spiller & Burr were entrepreneurs...

It has been said that parts from the original Whitney are interchangeable with the original Confederate S&B as they were produced on the same tooling.

Regards,

Jim

The must have modified the tooling some though.
Notice in my pictures above, the brass framed Spiller & Burr has considerably more material where the barrel screws into the frame.

From Flayderman's Guide, I learned that the Second model reduced this material from approx. 7/8" to 5/8" creating a gap between the cylinder and frame of about 1/4". This exposed the barrel threads so like the Remington New Army, the threads could scrape the fouling off of the front of the cylinder and reduce it's tendency to "lock up".

 

[Rabbit2047]

I am picking up one later today. I do have one in relic status though. It was dug up behind what was the blacksmith shop in Tombstone Arizona

I will post photos of my new one after I get it home. I know it's got some repop screws and springs, but other than that it appears all matching.

 

[sourdough]

They must have modified the tooling some though.
Notice in my pictures above, the brass framed Spiller & Burr has considerably more material where the barrel screws into the frame.

Agreed. IIRC, the tooling came from the Harper's Ferry armory and was transported to Richmond(?). It was then moved to the CSA armory in Georgia under the direction of Burton, who commanded the armory. The strange thing about the S&B revolvers is that the original contract with the CSA called for 15,000 "Colt style revolvers".

From Flayderman's Guide, I learned that the Second model reduced this material from approx. 7/8" to 5/8" creating a gap between the cylinder and frame of about 1/4". This exposed the barrel threads so like the Remington New Army, the threads could scrape the fouling off of the front of the cylinder and reduce it's tendency to "lock up".

Correct. You have (had) the First Model.

The next photo shows what I believe is the twist of the iron bars used to create the cylinders. They run in a different direction than the Griswold & Gunnisons.

Regards,

Jim

 

[Rabbit2047]

Just picked it up. Couple of car seat photos... will take better when I get it home

 

[hrt4me]

very nice!

 

[Rabbit2047]

It's an earlier one...

All the all the internals are repops. This hammer may be original. The cylinder was worn out and I will have to weld it up and recut it, then age it... Gonna make all new standard screws and age them...

then put it in a shadow box with my relic. And sell the set for $1500

 

[JCKelly]

Just picked it up. Couple of car seat photos... will take better when I get it home

View attachment 79142View attachment 79143

Looks like a Whitney? Spiller & Burr used bronze frames. Alloy meets current specs for "Valve Bronze" (a.k.a. Navy M, or Steam Bronze). Chemistry nominal 88% copper 6% tin, 4% zinc and 1.5% lead.

 

[JCKelly]

This is my somewhat ratty Spiller & Burr, Serial No. 1?4? partially obscured. Has gain twist rifling. Trigger guard Confederate replacement, not cast in the North.

 

[JCKelly]

It's an earlier one...

All the all the internals are repops. This hammer may be original. The cylinder was worn out and I will have to weld it up and recut it, then age it... Gonna make all new standard screws and age them...

IF YOU WELD UP THIS OLD CYLINDER YOU WILL GREATLY, GREATLY DIMINISH THE VALUE. COLLECTORS LIKE OLD GUNS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN MONKEYED WITH.
then put it in a shadow box with my relic. And sell the set for $1500 - BUT NOT TO A COLLECTOR, IF WELDED ON.


View attachment 79150View attachment 79151

 

[Rabbit2047]

I literally do this for a living. An operational one with modern repairs will fetch a bigger price tag than one that doesn't work.

 

[JCKelly]

Y'all might wanna read Col. Burtons Spiller & Burr Revolver, Matthew W. Norman, First Edition, 1996

 

[JCKelly]

Rabbit, I fear you are loosing money. No one (sane) wants to shoot this thing.
Collectors are impressed with history, not modren repairs no matter how skillfully done.
Really. I have been a collector since late childhood. Member Kentucky Rifle Association, Pennsylvania Antique Gun Collectors Ass'n, Michigan Antique Arms Collectors. OK, you do not believe me, I am obviously full of it -
So ask some person with an actual antique (1800's or earlier) gun collection.
Then you can tell me to shut up.

 

[Rabbit2047]

Rabbit, I fear you are loosing money. No one (sane) wants to shoot this thing.
Collectors are impressed with history, not modren repairs no matter how skillfully done.
Really. I have been a collector since late childhood. Member Kentucky Rifle Association, Pennsylvania Antique Gun Collectors Ass'n, Michigan Antique Arms Collectors. OK, you do not believe me, I am obviously full of it -
So ask some person with an actual antique (1800's or earlier) gun collection.
Then you can tell me to shut up.

I am literally an antique firearms dealer. This is how I make a living. I would think that I have a better knowledge in regards to what the market wants.

No these guys don't necessarily shoot them, but being operational is an important part of making a sale of these guns, especially when they are not in the best condition cosmetically.

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean that's what the market trend is. Your "untouched" relic mindset is a myth perpetrated by gun shop counter neckbeards that have no idea what they are talking about.

Do you think I would have done $80k in sales last year if you were right?

 

[Rabbit2047]

This marking perplexes me...

I put in a call to Dan Williams, who literally wrote the book on Whitney's, and he was unsure of its origin as well.

Some mysteries will never be solved I guess.

 

[hrt4me]

lower right grip frame, correct?

 

[Rabbit2047]

lower right grip frame, correct?

Right side. Correct