Elk Hunt Caliber

[david58]

Asking the opinion of those been there done that folks.

To begin with, I am a 100 max shooter - with my full stock Plains Rifle (.50 caliber Sharon bbl, 36"), my eyes will let me kill a deer at 100 yards. I can estimate distance pretty well, I blame my years as a soccer referee as helping with my distance estimation, but today I also have a rangefinder [grins].

I am very, very comfortable with my Plains Rifle - I built it about 25 years ago, and am simply very comfortable shooting it, and shoot it pretty well. I've taken a lot of deer with it, but never elk.

I live in NM now, and for a resident elk hunting is more accessible here than when I lived in Oregon. If I draw an ML tag again, I would like to use my .50.

At 100 yards, is it enough gun with a patched round ball? My target load is 120gr of 3F (yes, it's a cannon, but that is the load it likes most), I hunt with 140gr.

I'd like to think my .50 is adequate for elk to 100, but I also want to hunt within the range that I can make a sure kill. I'm not a long shot guy anywho - I prefer to be a hunter, not a shooter. My elk this year was taken at 75 yards - the country is rugged and wooded, I don't figure on many long shot opportunities anyway.

Looking forward to hearing your opinions.

David
NM

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Do a search for "davenport Formula" on this forum.
It will show you your max burn. You can go backwards to fine if there is a better accurate charge.

 

[Zonie]

Anyone reading about the Davenport Formula needs to understand that it calculates the maximum recommended powder charge for target shooting, not for hunting.

First posted by Paul Vallandigham, he described the formula a friend named Davenport had come up with. It is based on the volume of the bore of the gun.

Over the years, people reading about it thought it calculated the maximum powder a muzzleloading barrel could burn and any powder load larger than that would be a waste of powder because the extra powder could not increase the projectile's velocity. That idea is totally wrong and if he was alive today, Paul would be the first to tell you that. Powder loads greater than those calculated using the Devanport Formula do increase the velocity.

If the gun is shooting a bullet, much of that velocity will be maintained as the bullet travels downrange.
If the shooter is shooting a patched roundball, most of that increased velocity will be lost before the ball travels beyond 100 yards.
A graph showing the velocity of a patched roundball is shown below. The numbers on the right show the velocity in feet per second.
The numbers on the left show the powder load using GOEX 3Fg powder in a 28" barrel with a 1:48 twist per Lymans BLACK POWDER HANDBOOK & LOADING MANUAL, 2nd edition.

In the chart, the first square on the left is the muzzle velocity. Each square to the right represents 20 yards so, the next to the last square on the right represents 100 yards. Remember, this chart is for patched roundballs. Bullets do a far better job of retaining their velocity.

 

[poker]

50 cal is just fine for elk. I and companions have proven that several times right down there in NM. Thats some great hunting, but very hard anymore to get a bull tag as a non-resident, unless willing to hire a guide.

 

[longcruise]

You are good to go.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I have killed 22 head of elk and several of them were with a ML but all mine were with conicals.
I know that the 50 cal PRB can kill elk. I have seen guys that have posted pictures. But the one thing they all had in common was they got close. I have talked to guys that have switched from PRB to conical because they were not happy with the outcome even though the elk did die.
Just keep in mind that you have to be close and make sure that you don't hit the shoulder. The shoulder blade can be penetrated with a GOOD conical, and I am highlighting GOOD. Not all conicals can punch through.
Even a Large PRB like a 54 or a 58 might get through it, but the better shot is lungs and wait after the shot to not push the animal.
Good luck with your hunt.

 

[Rock Home Isle]

Asking the opinion of those been there done that folks.

To begin with, I am a 100 max shooter - with my full stock Plains Rifle (.50 caliber Sharon bbl, 36"), my eyes will let me kill a deer at 100 yards. I can estimate distance pretty well, I blame my years as a soccer referee as helping with my distance estimation, but today I also have a rangefinder [grins].

I am very, very comfortable with my Plains Rifle - I built it about 25 years ago, and am simply very comfortable shooting it, and shoot it pretty well. I've taken a lot of deer with it, but never elk.

I live in NM now, and for a resident elk hunting is more accessible here than when I lived in Oregon. If I draw an ML tag again, I would like to use my .50.

At 100 yards, is it enough gun with a patched round ball? My target load is 120gr of 3F (yes, it's a cannon, but that is the load it likes most), I hunt with 140gr.

I'd like to think my .50 is adequate for elk to 100, but I also want to hunt within the range that I can make a sure kill. I'm not a long shot guy anywho - I prefer to be a hunter, not a shooter. My elk this year was taken at 75 yards - the country is rugged and wooded, I don't figure on many long shot opportunities anyway.

Looking forward to hearing your opinions.

David
NM

I started hunting elk in Colorado, with a muzzleloader, when I was in High School back in the late 70's. I could keep 5 shots onto a 4 inch group at 100 yards, and was quite comfortable hitting vitals at distances out to 150 yards...years of hunting prairie dogs with a muzzleloader.

I originally used a .50 calibre CVA Mountain Rifle for the first 5 to 8 years then switched to a Pedersoli Alamo Rifle...again in .50 calibre, for most of the following years until the mid 90's, when I switched to a CVA Big Bore Mountain Rifle in .54 calibre. In the final years of hunting elk I sued a .54 calibre flintlock, to good effect.

By the time I switched to the .54, I was no longer shooting elk at 100 yards...more like 20 to 40 yards. Sad to say, I haven't hunted elk in the last 10 years or so. In all those years that I did hunt them, I think I only came home empty handed a hand full of times...that was in the first couple years, before I learned how to talk to them and call them in.

Hunting elk with a muzzleloader is an awesome hunting experience. They are work to find and they are work to get out of the woods. You will have a blast and create many memories.

.50 calibre RBs are a little light for elk, at the distances that you are talking about hunting. Under 50 yards you could kill elk all day with an RB and 100 grains of 2fg powder. Very effective at those close quarters, as long as you keep your shots into the heart/lung area. Tray to stay away from the massive bones of the front shoulders...head and neck shots are incredibly effective, usually they just crumple into a heap.

You start shooting elk at much over 70+ yards, with an RB, and you'll start having more need to follow up with a finisher shot.

At one point, I started using the T/C Maxi Ball on top of 90 grains of 2fg, for hunting elk. with this load I was dead on at 100 yards and the RB (100 grains of 2fg) impacted 2 inches above that...

With the Maxi Ball, I was able to effectively kill elk at 100 yards. My longest shot ever on an elk was 130 yards. Shot placement is critical when shooting a solid conical bullet, I learned to aim into the front shoulder and use bone to expand the projectile and knock the animal down. When doing this, I'd usually find the flattened out projectile just under the skin on the far side, with lots of shattered bone in between. If I did a solid heart/lung shot, the Maxi Ball usually went through and through, so I never recovered those projectiles, entrance and exit wounds looked the same, so expansion was probably negligible at best on soft tissue....and a lot of times I'd be tracking the animal for a surprising distance. Elk are just made to cover long distances.

When the first hollow pointed Buffalo Bullets began appearing on the market, I started using an 1/8th inch drill bit to put a hollow point into the tip of my cast lead Maxi Balls, about 1/4" deep. With that change, I got great expansion on soft tissue and still maintained deep effective penetration if I hit bone.

So in answer to your question...I'd hunt with a Conical Bullet as my primary load and use the RB as a quick Re-load, in case the animal is wounded and ambles away. The Lee R.E.A.L. bullets work very nicely on elk...in my opinion.

As an aside, the .54 calibre is a much more effective calibre for elk, in my opinion.

 

[Cherrybow]

Colorado laws require a minimum 54 caliber round ball for Elk.

 

[Rock Home Isle]

Colorado laws require a minimum 54 caliber round ball for Elk.

They do now...but you can still use a .50 caliber with a conical slug...It was change that needed to happen.

 

[user 36911]

I prefer a .54 PRB for elk. I know a lot of guys who used a .50 when it was legal here. It should work but i'd get as close as possible and only take a double lung.

 

[Rock Home Isle]

I prefer a .54 PRB for elk. I know a lot of guys who used a .50 when it was legal here. It should work but i'd get as close as possible and only take a double lung.

The .54 makes an amazing elk gun, very noticeable difference when I switched from .50 to .54 calibre.

 

[Walkingeagle]

Gonna be honest here. My preference for muzzleloader elk is my .50 Lyman GPH with conical. However that may change with the 20ga smoothie I am currently building. That big ol’patched ball, if proven accurate, may just change my mind.
Walk

 

[Zutt-man]

I used a .54 RB this last fall. Unfortunately I had a hang fire on my first shot which lead to a hit farther back than I prefer. It took two follow up shots. It really only needed one, but I shoot until the elk is dead. I wouldn’t hesitate to use it again, maybe with a slightly higher powder charge. I used 70 gr FF.

 

[Zutt-man]

Gonna be honest here. My preference for muzzleloader elk is my .50 Lyman GPH with conical. However that may change with the 20ga smoothie I am currently building. That big ol’patched ball, if proven accurate, may just change my mind.
Walk

I started a thread an hour or so ago on using a smoothie for elk. I’d like to hear some feedback if you end up using yours on one

 

[Stony Broke]

I've hunted quite a bit with muzzleloaders and I think I would go a little bigger for elk if I were you. I have a .58 and a .62 which are just better for larger game as the bigger ball just carries more momentum and can penetrate deeper. I shoot a lot of feral hogs and a complete pass through with prb is just a lot more effective.

 

[CoHiCntry]

I used a .54 RB this last fall. Unfortunately I had a hang fire on my first shot which lead to a hit farther back than I prefer. It took two follow up shots. It really only needed one, but I shoot until the elk is dead. I wouldn’t hesitate to use it again, maybe with a slightly higher powder charge. I used 70 gr FF.

Nice elk... how far was your shot?

 

[Zutt-man]

Nice elk... how far was your shot?

Thanks! 1st was 100 yds. 2nd was at 30. Last was at 4

 

[Walkingeagle]

Furthest I’ve ever taken an elk was 105yds (GPS’d for accuracy) and that was with a modern suppository. Closest was 3yds with modern compound bow (and yes, ground level). I’ve killed elk with the modern stuff, traditional recurve bows, muzzleloader rifles and perhaps this year finally a smoothbore. Considering the most common range I’ve taken elk between (25-70yds), I think the smoothie would easily do the job!
Walk

 

[longcruise]

Walk, pretty sure that's going to happen for you.