Elk with a roundball stories

[hoochiepapa]

Oh yeah there is, hunting on the east slope of northern Colorado.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I guess I should say that the ballistics are similar when comparing regular 30-30 ammo (I've never tried the Leverevolution but have heard the hype) and the max. load for a traditional .50 cal with a 175 gr. RB (the 30-30 bullets I've used for elk have been either 150 or 175 gr.). The ML numbers aren't quite there with the 30-30 but the're closer than comparing a 30-30 with a 30-06 that most guys claim is the absolute minimum for elk. My TC manual says that with 110 gr. black powder and a 175 gr. RB I should have about 1,772 foot pounds of energy @ the muzzle. The 30-30 ammo I've used successfully for elk has had a Muzzle energy of 1,830 foot pounds. I would call that "similar" with only about a 3% loss of energy with the .50 RB compared to the 30-30 bullet.

I'll give you at the muzzle, but look at them at 100yds, or even worse for the RB at 150yds.

 

[BrownBear]

We've got a threesome that hunt our place in the Southwest for elk every couple of years or so. Been doing it for close to 15 years. They started out with two guys using 50 cals with conicals and the third using a 54 and RBs. The 54 RBs accounted for 1-shot kills every time, but the conicals never got the job done without 2 shots.

Those guys switched to 54 RB after a couple of chases each, so I'm can't add 50 Rb to the mix for you. BTW- the guy with the first 54 is a real hunter, getting close and always taking good broadside shots inside 75 yards. The two with the 50 conicals were shooting at around 100 or a little further, and shooting at hair from what I could tell by the wounds. Further proof that youth and enthusiasm will lose out to old age and cunning. :rotf:

 

[Britsmoothy]

I guess I should say that the ballistics are similar when comparing regular 30-30 ammo (I've never tried the Leverevolution but have heard the hype) and the max. load for a traditional .50 cal with a 175 gr. RB (the 30-30 bullets I've used for elk have been either 150 or 175 gr.). The ML numbers aren't quite there with the 30-30 but the're closer than comparing a 30-30 with a 30-06 that most guys claim is the absolute minimum for elk. My TC manual says that with 110 gr. black powder and a 175 gr. RB I should have about 1,772 foot pounds of energy @ the muzzle. The 30-30 ammo I've used successfully for elk has had a Muzzle energy of 1,830 foot pounds. I would call that "similar" with only about a 3% loss of energy with the .50 RB compared to the 30-30 bullet.

Foot pounds :idunno: Garbage. Means nothing, the only thing foot pounds are good for is tightening a bolt. I ain't never seen a critter move the amount of feet they are supposed to do :shake:

Brits.

 

[BrownBear]

A friend prefers FIA of energy. Feet-in-Air. More than 4 FIA robs you of statistical credibility! :grin:

 

[Pete Gaimari]

You say:

"Foot pounds Garbage. Means nothing"


Ok, you shoot me with a 250gr bullet that has 2fpe, and i'll shoot you with a 250gr bullet that has 1000fpe.

See how that works out for you.

 

[tg]

The .50 has worked for me but it need be used with extreme caution to range and ball placement, do not try for a thru the shoulder shot, stay awat from bone go for the killzone and 50-75 yds max, 50 is best Elk are tough I have seen them take 2-3 .30 mag centerfire bullets and go a 100 yds before they pile up range estimation is critical if one has not spent a lot of time around Elk practice on life sized Elk targets is a good way to learn.Do not be concerned about ft/lbs and modern ballistics as they have no place in the world of PRB hunting anymore than in archery different factors are at work.Some take longer shots but I would not recommensd it for a first timer the longer the distance the more chance Murphy will show up.One thing I will add about any caliber for any game is if one is not confident that he has the correct gun then he should not use it, as conficence in ones gear is a big part of success or none, IMHO.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

I'm not going for it. Ballistics are ballistics. There's nothing magical about a round ball of lead.

The speed and energy of it can be measured. It's not strong enough, or heavy enough to penetrate. It pancakes on impact. It loses all speed and energy long before a real bullet.

I have to chuckle at traditional shooters saying you can't compare a round balls performance with modern ballistics. Yes you can, but the RB's performance is so pathetic that you think it doesn't apply. It does.

I accept the limitations of the round ball. I know it's limitations, because modern ballistics shows me.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Capper I am on your side, I don't see the magic in a PRB. But I am ducking for cover :hatsoff: this is about to get ugly. Ron

 

[Pete Gaimari]

It won't get ugly on my part. I said my peace, and i'm done.

 

[luieb45]

We talk about ballistics way too much on this forum. The way I see it is that we over complicate things sometimes. I'm not talking about elk, but I'm talking about how much people fret about whitetail hunting with a roundball. Then people always will ask what powder charge they should use for deer; nothing wrong with that; sometimes people(like my dad) think that if they go below an 80 gr. powder charge that they'll go from complete penetration to the ball just bouncing off the deer or something :youcrazy:. I'm not as bad as some about worrying about ballistics, maybe that's because I come from a shotgun only state. But I would hate to worry as much as some worry about ballistics.

 

[BrownBear]

We talk about ballistics way too much on this forum. The way I see it is that we over complicate things sometimes.

That's why experienced hunters call it bull-istics. Just the talkers doing their hunting (and pecking) on the keyboard rather than on the game fields. Sad, but easy to recognize.

 

[tg]

You are much wiser than many of your elders my friend, modern ballistics apply to what happens to a modern bullet when it enters and expands and does its thing the PRB is a different critter no one said better just different inspite of what some of the experts would have you believe, you can stab a deer thru the heart/lungs with a 16th century rapier and the ballistics would be pretty pathetic but the deer will die rather quickly, velocity and ft/lbs just do not have the value with a ball as a modern expanding projectile within reason, as you said you have to move the bal fast enough to penetrate, most go clear thru taking most of the precious ballistic ft/lbs with them into a tree on the other side, but listen to the talking heads if you wish or the veteran prb hunters with many animals taken quiclkly and cleanly with moderate loads in a ML, the biggest problem with the PRB is shooting to far and a resulting missplaced shot or lack of penetration which can happen with a modern gun as well.It is certainly nice not to see all the posts that are made on every thread you can sort a lot of the BS without even having to see it once you ID the consistant sources..

 

[luieb45]

So a roundball is actually more deadly when it doesn't pass through? This Fall I shot a doe with my bow and the arrow poked through the lungs but didn't exit yet it she still only went 70 yards.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Arrows and prb's DON'T work the same. Ron

 

[larry wv]

I always want an exit hole. The idea of wasted energy because of a pass through is hog wash. Larry Wv

 

[hellerodsyahoo.com]

Over the years I have heard a lot of talk in elk camp about calibers and bullet types, and after a few cocktails, you can hear about anything. All I really believe in is seeing dead elk, in camp, hanging up and cooling out!!!!! Just practice shooting whatever gun/cal. you plan to hunt with, proper bullet placement will put elk on the ground !!

 

[texcl]

I agree and exit wound is always better if nothing else but for tracking.

 

[tg]

"So a roundball is actually more deadly when it doesn't pass through?"
I would not say that, it was only a note about what happens to the ft/lbs of energy at times,this and velocity react differently on PRB than modern jacketed bullets thus the comparison is apples to oranges and that modern ballistics are not a factor in the way they are with modern projectiles typicaly and ball load with 1 1/2 times the ball cal in powder or more will suffice for hunting within 100 yds one must also consider the size of ball(size of hole, amount of internal damage) but velocity/ft/lbs are not the "tools of the trade with pRB as they are used with modern projectiles, and are often overstated as to their value in ML hunting and load selection as many cannot leave such things in the present when stepping back to the world of ML's, nothing wrong with playing around with the numbers but there is little relevance in finding a ball load that mathematicaly matches a centefire load.I am not going to get into a long winded tirade on phsyics so I will leave it here with the IMHO caveat, and most will agree that an exit wound is a great advantage for tracking as well as bleeding out the animal faster.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

My son wants to hunt elk with a .50 cal. ML this year. I have experience hunting elk with a 30-30 and have never had a problem and the ballistics are similar. I don't think that he'll have a problem getting good penetration with a .50 patched round ball as long as he takes a bow-type shot, broadside through the lungs. I would like to get stories about elk hunting with a PRB though, just to increase my confidence. Please include distance of shot, location of hit, and penetration. Thanks.

Hey buddy,
things got off topic a bit.
Instead of a story I'll post some pics and a little advise.
I have been hunting elk for 22 yrs and have harvested 22 elk.
What Marmotslayer said is right on the money 100 PERCENT!
He hunts just over the divide from me.
Also Idaho Ron is correct you can't compaire R.B. to Conicle slugs.
I have hunted with both sence 1982.
I now just shoot R.B. and as long as you keep your range to 100 yrds with a good stout load in eather 50 or 54 and take only broad side shots behind the shoulder you can't lose.
I have taken neck shots and chest shots and have never lost or wounded a animal but I shoot off hand three times a weak.
The only ballistics advice I will give is this.
a 50 or 54 cal being pushed by 100 grns of FFG or more will flatten out before it hits the second lung on an animal at 20 to 40 yrds and you will get no pass through with that all lead projectile.
At 50 to 75 yrds you will get clean pass through because the bullet has slowed down and will not flatten at those speeds as long as you don't hit a ribb in the middle or where they are thick.
at 75 to 100 yds you will find the ball in the hide on the far side.
A upper lung hit will almost never leave much of a blood trail because elk lungs ore so big they absorbe it.
I always aim just above the heart or at it if I am close enough.
you will get shots out west here from 20 to 100yrds with open sites so practice a lot.
Get a guide.
A double lung shot above the heart will drop the biggest elk in two min.
I don't mean a high lung I mean right above the heart.


I called this bull in to 25 yrds and shot him through the chest with a 50 R.B. I found the ball in his liver totally flat,I hit no bone so I diden't drop him he turned but stopped when I cow called him a min later he was steaks on the hoof .
I was using 110 grns of FFG Goex express.

I shot this cow through the heart at fifty yrds with a 54 cal and got clean pass through.
I am also shooting 110 grns of Goex express in this rifle.
She took one step after I shot and I saw a gallon of blood hit the dirt and she collapsed.

This year I shot my elk with a 50 flinter at 75 yrds and found my ball in the hide on the other side.
I was using 100 grns of FFG Goex

I like my projectiles to pass through cleanly as to leave a good blood trail but I usally don't need it.
Hope this helps
:thumbsup: