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English scalper

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I think @Dan99 is working on an authentic reproduction of a trade scalper. Trade knives were made by professional cutlers in multiples, all to specified patterns. It is my understanding no one knife was made by one man. Some people were blacksmiths, who did the forging. The rough forged knives were then passed to people who did the finish grinding, and handles were installed by others. These knives were typically made in the urban manufacturing districts in Britain. They didn't really have mass production as we think of it now, yet knives like these were made in enormous quantities for export. I believe the blades would have been forged out of raw stock, rather than recycled materials. Even cheap knives coming out of those cutlery shops were ground smooth. So, the file teeth would not be authentic on a trade knife.

Handmade knives forged in the small frontier settlements were a whole different consideration. Recycled materials would have absolutely been used. Even old wagon tires and barrel hoops were made into cutlery. The result was a great variety of sizes, shapes, handle material, and quality of the finish work. These "primitive" knives make a fascinating field of study. But these were not trade knives.

There were comments about poor farmers. Bear in mind, Washington and Jefferson were farmers. They weren't all poor! Anyway, poor people in general tend to buy cheap stuff. Would it be cheaper to buy a "mass produced" imported knife for fifty cents from the local trader, or a custom handmade knife from the local blacksmith?

As for the half tang/full tang consideration, the half tang is authentic. That is how these old trade scalpers were made. If you want to make or use authentic gear, you have to ask yourself, "Do I want a better knife, or a more authentic one?" It doesn't really matter how much you might like some innovation, or how much you might want some undocumented gear to be authentic. If you want an authentic trade scalper, you want one with a half tang.

It is widely believed that a full tang is stronger than a half tang. I'm not sure that I agree. The weakest point on any knife is where the blade meets the handle, not out toward the butt.

I broke a knife one time. It was a simple, half-tang, wood handled hunting knife from Herters. I got it when I was twelve years old. I used it as a general purpose hunting/camping knife for half a century. I did some batoning with it, breaking up kindling, but only little stuff. I never tried opening cans with it! One day, while splitting a straight grained piece of pine kindling about the diameter of my thumb, the knife just broke off, about 1/8" inside the handle. The blade was intact, beyond the break, and the half tang was still solidly in place in the handle. Over years of use, the metal evidently became fatigued from the repeated stress at that fulcrum point, until that one day when it just gave up. It would not have made a bit of difference if the knife had had a full tang or half tang, because it broke where the blade met the handle.

@Dan99 requested opinions. He is making a copy of a professional cutler-produced trade knife, and not a knife that would have been hammered out of recycled metal by a frontier blacksmith in between shoeing horses and making nails. It should have a half tang, and the blade should be ground smooth. The pin-fastened slotted block handle is very appropriate, and beech was a very commonly used wood for handles on trade knives. The scalpers, more than other types, were also frequently hafted with red-colored tropical hardwoods. In Carl Russell's book, Firearms, Traps, and Tools of the Mountain Men, the author reported on an old scalping knife very similar to the one Dan is showing us. Some scrapings were taken from the wood handle and analyzed in a lab, which revealed it was East Indian Rosewood. So, there are some options in selecting authentic wood to use for the handle, but beech is a good choice, too.

That knife shows good research and good work. Nice job so far, Dan!

Notchy Bob
Thank you for additional information and thoughts on if it could have been make by blacksmith. Your correct with me attempting to make as correct as possible. But if someone wants to order a knife 1/2 tang, full tang or hidden tang I can make them all.
As always, I thank everyone for taking time to comment, which helps me to make a better knife!
 
Scrap metal could be anything repurposed from old wagon parts to horse shoes or anything that was originally made from metal. The area my family was from in WNC had stamp mills in the Hanging Dawg vicinity in the 1780’s -1800 time period. The Cherokee traded for this metal and many a gun barrel were made from this metal.
I know what scrap metal is.

1780's-1800 is not Colonial.
There is little or no evidence for home made knives, especially not poor people making them,,then,,, where would a poor person get a forge.....
 
My thought was that the wood would be more likely to split, splinter or break then steel, but I personally haven’t done any testing or research.
And you would be right.
But that is why they would have used the right tool for the job.

There was no "Bushcraft Bob" YouTube channel trying to get everyone to try and use one tool for every task.
 
Thank you for additional information and thoughts on if it could have been make by blacksmith. Your correct with me attempting to make as correct as possible. But if someone wants to order a knife 1/2 tang, full tang or hidden tang I can make them all.
As always, I thank everyone for taking time to comment, which helps me to make a better knife!
And in case you missed it in an earlier reply, you are doing a great job.
The lines on this knife are really nice, the handle looks really good.
I really like this knife.
The only issue is the file marks.
 
Not directed to the o.p.

It would seem that once again folks are forgetting or confusing two or three things.

1st and foremost. Colonial America was very, very, much a consumer society. Trade goods such as trade knives were very plentiful and cheap. Time labor and material could be better used to make or repair other items. A lot of what we think it is cool to make, or we make to save money (because economics have changed) even lower income people would have purchased. And they certainly would have scoffed at the idea of leaving self-made stuff rough and unfinished for that old-timey/frontier/selfmade look.

People who get involved in this hobby/cultural experiment (lifestyle for some) often confuse modern bushcrafter mentality and ideas with colonial and early American frontier methods/practices and thinking. They are rarely the same. Bushcraft is not 18th century frontier reenacting or experimental/experiential archeology.
And, related to that, it often seems people are confused by time periods. Anything after the AWI is not Colonial America and anything after 1799 is the 19th century.
 
I agree I like a full tang on all my knifes
I agree with the full tang, all the bush knives I make have them. That said, Trade/scalping knives historically only had a partial tang as his has. Of course you wouldn't see a trade knife with the file thatching still on it, that said, it's a good-looking knife.
 
I think it looks good and I have knives with file marks on them and I would not remove them from my knives and think you could sell them with the file marks I could care less about authentic looks I am about Quality First and that means durable also I will not purchase a knife without a full tang JMO
 
That's a very good looking scalper. Having folks heap on positive remarks doesn't help much so I'll go the other direction. First, look at the originals. Your blade profile is very good. The scalpers had some variation so there isn't just one pattern however your knife is very good. I like the handle with the cut and the half tang. PC. Yes, there were a couple of full tang scalpers but what you have is by far the most common. On the back of the wood handle, look closely at originals, some were square but LOOKED round because the side angles, those on the back were made such that the side of the handle is rounded in back but then flows to an actual square. I hope I explained that correctly. On the file marks, the scalpers were turned out by tilt hammers or stamp forged so they would not have file marks. On the pins, the English scalpers had heavy pins than the French, I've forgotten but I think the French had three pins and the English two pins but you want to get that right. Finally, I'd pay $80-$100 to have a stamp made with a Maltese Cross, Peppercorns, or some other period correct type and add your initials. Nice touch.
Good luck. also, try to have a steel that can be sharpened pretty easily Maybe ask Wick what he thinks.
 
I know what scrap metal is.

1780's-1800 is not Colonial.
There is little or no evidence for home made knives, especially not poor people making them,,then,,, where would a poor person get a forge.....
Knifes were fairly cheap. American fur would, In western times, get butchers at two dollars a dozen. .17 a peice.
A Blacksmith could expect to earn about one to one and a half dollars a day. He couldn’t economically undercut imports
There were some American made blades, but they tended to be specialized knifes made for well to do clients instead of poor folk needing something home made
 
That's a very good looking scalper. Having folks heap on positive remarks doesn't help much so I'll go the other direction. First, look at the originals. Your blade profile is very good. The scalpers had some variation so there isn't just one pattern however your knife is very good. I like the handle with the cut and the half tang. PC. Yes, there were a couple of full tang scalpers but what you have is by far the most common. On the back of the wood handle, look closely at originals, some were square but LOOKED round because the side angles, those on the back were made such that the side of the handle is rounded in back but then flows to an actual square. I hope I explained that correctly. On the file marks, the scalpers were turned out by tilt hammers or stamp forged so they would not have file marks. On the pins, the English scalpers had heavy pins than the French, I've forgotten but I think the French had three pins and the English two pins but you want to get that right. Finally, I'd pay $80-$100 to have a stamp made with a Maltese Cross, Peppercorns, or some other period correct type and add your initials. Nice touch.
Good luck. also, try to have a steel that can be sharpened pretty easily Maybe ask Wick what he thinks.
Thank you, I’ll look at the details of the handles you mentioned. And thank you for mentioning makers mark, I’ve thinking about it but definitely need to get one sooner than later. I appreciate you taking time to make suggestions.
 
92AEC263-159D-4115-9793-35DBE5A5D05E.jpeg

Yeah, that looks A LOT better😆
 

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Not directed to the o.p.

It would seem that once again folks are forgetting or confusing two or three things.

1st and foremost. Colonial America was very, very, much a consumer society. Trade goods such as trade knives were very plentiful and cheap. Time labor and material could be better used to make or repair other items. A lot of what we think it is cool to make, or we make to save money (because economics have changed) even lower income people would have purchased. And they certainly would have scoffed at the idea of leaving self-made stuff rough and unfinished for that old-timey/frontier/selfmade look.

People who get involved in this hobby/cultural experiment (lifestyle for some) often confuse modern bushcrafter mentality and ideas with colonial and early American frontier methods/practices and thinking. They are rarely the same. Bushcraft is not 18th century frontier reenacting or experimental/experiential archeology.
And, related to that, it often seems people are confused by time periods. Anything after the AWI is not Colonial America and anything after 1799 is the 19th century.
Very good points.
 
Nicely done 👍

Did you by any chance read the article sent through by BrokenNock in your french knife thread?

I'd love to see you do a boucheron, your work is very good. Not a lot of guys doing justice for a boucheron these days.
Thank you, Bushfire. Yes, I did read the article BrokenNock listed, it had a lot of good information, I even looked up parts 1 and 2 of the article. That will probably be my next knife I make. I have one roughed out now, I’m thinking of doing it as a full tang just for something different…
2952D186-F0FA-4910-BEBE-31E9ED7F2006.jpeg
 
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