Engraving / obturation needed for PRB accuracy ?

[Zonie]

And I can't imagine some AH shooting a bear with a slingshot.

To me, its one thing to hunt a animal and take it as quickly and as cleanly as possible.

It's quite another to shoot an animal just to cause it some pain.
Someone who would do that IMO would shoot a bunch of innocent people in a movie theater.

OK. Off my soap box and back to the corner goes I. :redface:

 

[gmww]

I'm gonna cast up some hard round ball with wheel weight / #2 babbitt / pot skim (seeing as there's some that I've been wondering what to do with) and see how they work in a Hoyt .58 barrel with narrow lands.

I'm using hard cast RB in my .62 rifled barrel. Works very well on animals up to Buffalo. Haven't tried it on anything bigger but I'm pretty confident it would work well.

 

[BrianL]

Seriously? You equate shooting a marble at an animal with shooting up to seventy innocent people
out to watch a movie? Really? Going to the corner are you? You should be going farther than that my boy. i realize that you are supposedly some form of high poobah here but get real. I take a BB gun to the bears on my porch even though the game wardens have told me to shoot to kill. Do I do it to cause them pain? Damn straight I do. Please delete my account if you feel a need. To be honest, you disgust me in this statement.

 

[Dphar]

And I can't imagine some AH shooting a bare with a slingshot.

To me, its one thing to hunt a animal and take it as quickly and as cleanly as possible.

It's quite another to shoot an animal just to cause it some pain.
Someone who would do that IMO would shoot a bunch of innocent people in a movie theater.

OK. Off my soap box and back to the corner goes I. :redface:

You apparently don't have many bear problems where you live.
Sometimes its better to try to run them off than to have to kill them.
I seriously doubt that a critter that can survive slaps and/or bites from another large bear is going to suffer much from a wrist rocket marble.

Dan

 

[Dean2]

And I can't imagine some AH shooting a bare with a slingshot.

To me, its one thing to hunt a animal and take it as quickly and as cleanly as possible.

It's quite another to shoot an animal just to cause it some pain.
Someone who would do that IMO would shoot a bunch of innocent people in a movie theater.

OK. Off my soap box and back to the corner goes I. :redface:

That is WAY past uncalled for and clearly not what I would expect from a moderator. This also disrespects 70 victims of a real tragedy. Your job is to cut-off offensive and rude posts, not start them.

 

[cynthialee]

Can we please back off the hostilities and get back to the real work of this site? Which would be educating and sharing experiances.

 

[Dean2]

In my opinion you are pointing your bang stick at the wrong person. I am not hostile, I am attempting to ensure the first vollies don't get fired by the policing arm, or is calling a moderator on inappropriate behaviour not "allowed" on this site. Do the Rules here only apply to the rank and file? Which is sort of the antithesis of what the Revolutionairy War was fought for.

 

[BrownBear]

And I can't imagine some AH shooting a bare with a slingshot.

To me, its one thing to hunt a animal and take it as quickly and as cleanly as possible.

It's quite another to shoot an animal just to cause it some pain.
Someone who would do that IMO would shoot a bunch of innocent people in a movie theater.

OK. Off my soap box and back to the corner goes I. :redface:

That's because you don't live around Kodiak brown bears. Non-lethal alternatives ranging from pepper spray to "cracker" shells to rubber bullets are recommended by wildlife management agencies and troopers, and even in wide use to deter/alter bad behavior. Heck the agencies themselves who work out in the field are easily the biggest users.

BTW- The 58 cal round balls from wrist rockets are used by Alaska Department of Fish and Game personnel on most fish weirs. They're the cheap answer to the high cost of shotguns and rubber bullets. Each year the local ADF&G office pre-orders Hornady .570 round balls by the thousand and stores are careful keep them in stock.

Beats heck out of the pain involved in killing every brown bear that breaks up fish weirs or destroys cabins and camps if not "taught" with rubber bullets or .570 round balls that such practices aren't a good idea.

Sorry I trod on your toes, but I hope the details can help you see it in a clearer light.

 

[BrianL]

I suppose that it is a good thing that Alaska Dept of Fish and Game personnel have a limited number of movie theaters in the area because it is a known fact that anyone who would do such a thing is obviously unstable. :youcrazy:

Seriously, I do appreciate you trying to clear up the issue and show why it is that this practice is much more humane than the alternative. I use a Red Ryder BB gun and take butt shots only. They do not break the skin. It worked and I have seen no more bears on the porch.

Whether Zonie sees anything in a different light or not is irrelevant. He stated his opinion and had all day to address this and tone down his rhetoric and I will not state my opinion other than to say that his blanket evaluation of use of non-lethal deterrent is incorrect but to equate it with sociopathic murderous behavior is inexcusable. Sure it will blow over........yep, always does.

 

[necchi]

Geez, it was dark humor, lighten up, :youcrazy:

 

[BrianL]

Yes sir, I be crazy :youcrazy:
If you found humor in that, dark or otherwise, you be as crazy as me boss :youcrazy: :youcrazy:

 

[jethro224]

Well, it appears this topic has taken a turn away from it's course. Zonie can unlock it to explain his comment if he wants to... For now it's closed.

 

[Zonie]

I've reopened the topic because folks were having a good time before I screwed up and made my comment.

I should point out that I didn't consider some of the uses for marbles and slingshots when trying to dissuade a bear or other critter from doing some damage to things.
Used in this context I don't have a problem with it and I shouldn't have made my comment.

To explain just a bit, my initial thought was of a few people I've known who would gladly shoot anything in range just for the thrill of causing things severe discomfort.
They enjoy causing pain.

People like that really pi$$ me off and I have no doubt that many of you feel the same way.

Rather than dwell on my previous comment (which I apologize for) can we get back to the obturation (or lack of it) a roundball might have when it is shot?

 

[gmww]

Shooting with hard cast roundballs seems to do well for me even though they probably don't obturation. I used the in large calibers .62.

 

[Dean2]

Rounball's usual excellent research shows clearly proves that flattening or expansion of glass and brass Rounball's is not needed to get excellent accurate. He has clearly shown that with these two materials, which are far to hard and rigid to deform at BP pressure it is the tight fit of the patch and ball that creates to accuracy. I posted the formula for compression of pure soft lead in the other thread on this subject, even that formula shows it is pretty unlikely that a round ball will be changed very much at BP pressures.

 

[roundball]

And to reiterate, in spite of using stout powder charges I have yet to recover a lead ball with any rifling marks on it either.

In my recent experiment bumping up my .58cal deer load from 100 to 120grns Goex 2F, I found it was incredibly accurate but the balls were into the dirt berm of course.
Since it was so accurate I'm staying with it as my new .58cal deer load and I have everything ready to go on another range trip to fine tune any possible sight adjustments from my normal hunting position.

On this next trip I'll also put a couple of the 120grns loads through a foot of cardboard and into a box of shredded rubber mulch to recover and inspect Hornady 100% soft lead balls for possible rifling marks from the extra 20grns of powder.
I'll be surprised if I see any...especially using thick .022" patches...but this will verify it either way it goes.

 

[gizamo]

Can we please back off the hostilities and get back to the real work of this site? Which would be educating and sharing experiances.

Probably the most sensible comment that I have seen on this forum, in a goats age...

Giz

 

[necchi]

Why bother, your conclusion is/will be already obvious.LOL
You've been presented with multiple photographs of lead ball with fabric impressions of rifling and continue to denie the existance of such.
If you can't see the marks or won't see the marks I don't expect you ever will.
Best of luck with your accuracy, sight adjustment and future experimental observations.
I'd try doing just one experiment with just one other person present, just one time. Two minds can sometimes work better than one, :wink: LOL

 

[roundball]

continue to denie the existance of such.

After recently catching you fabricating something of mine out of context you no longer have any credibility.

This is yet another example...once again the challenge back to you is to put up a link to a post where I "denied the existence".
But we both know you can't because you just made up another fabrication.

The factual posts I've made are;
I've never seen it on balls I've recovered, and have posted photos of balls recovered from deer, targets, etc...none having any evidence of rifling marks on them.

So once again...due to your false claims about something I said, your post has no credibility.

 

[gizamo]

Other "Factural" posts you have made lately was to adise a newbie to use his powder flask to charge his barrel with powder.

That advice is downright dangerous. Why in the world should anyone want to follow your advise? :youcrazy: