Enjoy the mysteries and vagueries of smoothbores...

[Brokennock]

I think on of my favorite things about shooting a smoothbore, especially shooting roundball out of a smoothbore, is that they don't seem to follow "the rules," or conventional wisdom. Rifle shooters swear by the mantra, "the tighter the patch/ball combination the better."
Not so the smoothie. As long as I have a good gas seal between powder and ball, weather ball is patched or just sandwiched between wads, tighter seems to shoot worse. My Early Virginia smoothrifle likes a .695 ball patched with a .010 patch better than a thinker patch or a .600 ball with a .010 patch, and likes a .610 ball in between wads even better.

Apparently the gas seal has its limits too.

I've been shooting my E.V.S.R. exclusively for a few years. My Fusil des Chase needed a couple repairs I wasn't prepared at the time to make. And, because I don't get to shoot/practice enough,, the rear sight made better practical sense.
The F.d.C. just handles and carries so much nicer.
I finally fixed the broken barrel lug, treated some worn spots on the stock with tru-oil after zapping some small cracks with thin CA glue. And,,,, added a small brass rear sight back even with the forward lock bolt. Sight picture is perfect for me, rear sight is naturally slightly blury and from sight is crisp. I can ignore the rear sight if need be.
This was back in early April.
I finally got to the range with her on Wednesday. I've always shot her with a .600 ball and a patch following the recipe the previous owner gave me.
I decided to try the more historically correct wads.
And, tried to improve gas seal with a nitro wad between powder and lubed felt wad, then ball .610 diameter, then thin card. I usually only use thin cards and the lubed wad.
It shot okay but not great. Was with about a bit over 65 grains of 3f. (Kicks much harder than I remembered, harder by far than the smoothrifle)
I tried the same lady with a thin card instead of the nitro wad, instant group improvement.
I tried the same load combo with a measure labeled "65g" but when the charge is weighed it averages about 58 grains...
Even better group.

This was all off the bench at 25 yards.

Next I'm going to try this load at 50 yards. As well as more 25 yard testing with 70 and 75 grains of 2f, maybe a few shots at 80 grains.

I'm reminded of a good friend's response at a modern pistol match when someone was asking him about load data advice. His response? "Shoot what works."

 

[Maven]

Shooting a smoothbore is somewhat like golf, but without a bagful of clubs and less frustrating to boot!

 

[tenngun]

I think on of my favorite things about shooting a smoothbore, especially shooting roundball out of a smoothbore, is that they don't seem to follow "the rules," or conventional wisdom. Rifle shooters swear by the mantra, "the tighter the patch/ball combination the better."
Not so the smoothie. As long as I have a good gas seal between powder and ball, weather ball is patched or just sandwiched between wads, tighter seems to shoot worse. My Early Virginia smoothrifle likes a .695 ball patched with a .010 patch better than a thinker patch or a .600 ball with a .010 patch, and likes a .610 ball in between wads even better.

Apparently the gas seal has its limits too.

I've been shooting my E.V.S.R. exclusively for a few years. My Fusil des Chase needed a couple repairs I wasn't prepared at the time to make. And, because I don't get to shoot/practice enough,, the rear sight made better practical sense.
The F.d.C. just handles and carries so much nicer.
I finally fixed the broken barrel lug, treated some worn spots on the stock with tru-oil after zapping some small cracks with thin CA glue. And,,,, added a small brass rear sight back even with the forward lock bolt. Sight picture is perfect for me, rear sight is naturally slightly blury and from sight is crisp. I can ignore the rear sight if need be.
This was back in early April.
I finally got to the range with her on Wednesday. I've always shot her with a .600 ball and a patch following the recipe the previous owner gave me.
I decided to try the more historically correct wads.
And, tried to improve gas seal with a nitro wad between powder and lubed felt wad, then ball .610 diameter, then thin card. I usually only use thin cards and the lubed wad.
It shot okay but not great. Was with about a bit over 65 grains of 3f. (Kicks much harder than I remembered, harder by far than the smoothrifle)
I tried the same lady with a thin card instead of the nitro wad, instant group improvement.
I tried the same load combo with a measure labeled "65g" but when the charge is weighed it averages about 58 grains...
Even better group.

This was all off the bench at 25 yards.

Next I'm going to try this load at 50 yards. As well as more 25 yard testing with 70 and 75 grains of 2f, maybe a few shots at 80 grains.

I'm reminded of a good friend's response at a modern pistol match when someone was asking him about load data advice. His response? "Shoot what works."

 

[Britsmoothy]

I think on of my favorite things about shooting a smoothbore, especially shooting roundball out of a smoothbore, is that they don't seem to follow "the rules," or conventional wisdom. Rifle shooters swear by the mantra, "the tighter the patch/ball combination the better."
Not so the smoothie. As long as I have a good gas seal between powder and ball, weather ball is patched or just sandwiched between wads, tighter seems to shoot worse. My Early Virginia smoothrifle likes a .695 ball patched with a .010 patch better than a thinker patch or a .600 ball with a .010 patch, and likes a .610 ball in between wads even better.

Apparently the gas seal has its limits too.

I've been shooting my E.V.S.R. exclusively for a few years. My Fusil des Chase needed a couple repairs I wasn't prepared at the time to make. And, because I don't get to shoot/practice enough,, the rear sight made better practical sense.
The F.d.C. just handles and carries so much nicer.
I finally fixed the broken barrel lug, treated some worn spots on the stock with tru-oil after zapping some small cracks with thin CA glue. And,,,, added a small brass rear sight back even with the forward lock bolt. Sight picture is perfect for me, rear sight is naturally slightly blury and from sight is crisp. I can ignore the rear sight if need be.
This was back in early April.
I finally got to the range with her on Wednesday. I've always shot her with a .600 ball and a patch following the recipe the previous owner gave me.
I decided to try the more historically correct wads.
And, tried to improve gas seal with a nitro wad between powder and lubed felt wad, then ball .610 diameter, then thin card. I usually only use thin cards and the lubed wad.
It shot okay but not great. Was with about a bit over 65 grains of 3f. (Kicks much harder than I remembered, harder by far than the smoothrifle)
I tried the same lady with a thin card instead of the nitro wad, instant group improvement.
I tried the same load combo with a measure labeled "65g" but when the charge is weighed it averages about 58 grains...
Even better group.

This was all off the bench at 25 yards.

Next I'm going to try this load at 50 yards. As well as more 25 yard testing with 70 and 75 grains of 2f, maybe a few shots at 80 grains.

I'm reminded of a good friend's response at a modern pistol match when someone was asking him about load data advice. His response? "Shoot what works."

No pictures

 

[Brokennock]

No pictures

1st two loads tried.


Thinner card and less powder, sharpie for size perspective


Just cuz you asked for pictures

 

[Mwal]

I have been playing around with .610 and tow. 80 grns ffg. Beats any patched load I have tried.
Mwal

 

[Brokennock]

I have been playing around with .610 and tow. 80 grns ffg. Beats any patched load I have tried.
Mwal

Just to add to our collective knowledge and data, maybe try the documented addition of a square of, "Brown paper rubbed soft," between powder and ball.
The method of which is to cut a strip that is 1"x2" and fold in half to create a 1" square. Seat this on the powder then your tow wadding and ball. And, let us know any difference you experience. Signs of more energy/pressure? Accuracy changes?

 

[Britsmoothy]

Great shooting. Much better with photos

 

[oreclan]

By way of contrast while attending The School of the Longhunter at Prickett's Fort, Fairmont, WV, several years ago we shot 'naked' balls out of our rifles at 50 yards. I fired a .490 ball out of my .50 cai. self built Reading school rifle and it grouped pretty well on a 'British soldier' man sized target. Wished I still had the 'evidence' to prove it; maybe I have it squirrelled away somewhere. I will try to find it, but the event left a positive impression. This was done on the frontier for a quick second shot ala Lewis Wetzel.

 

[Mwal]

Just to add to our collective knowledge and data, maybe try the documented addition of a square of, "Brown paper rubbed soft," between powder and ball.
The method of which is to cut a strip that is 1"x2" and fold in half to create a 1" square. Seat this on the powder then your tow wadding and ball. And, let us know any difference you experience. Signs of more energy/pressure? Accuracy changes?

I have tried but papper sticks to jag. Perhaps I need to work paper more to soften. Next range day I will try powder paper tow ball tow. I also have felt wads and nitro and card over shot wads to experiment with.

 

[mlo]

Interesting thread, I shoot a lot of smooth bore and have tried about every combination of patching, thin patch, thick patch and no patch. I couldn’t see a lot of difference in accuracy with any of them. For shooting a trail walk I shoot bare ball, just a felt wad on the powder and another on the ball, no wipe between shots, real fast easy loading.

 

[Kev308]

When I first started shooting my smoothbore, the advice from experts was daunting. Patch, don’t patch, wads tow, on and on. One bit of advise was 100 grains minimum powder charge...ouch.
I tried them all and landed on 80 gr 3f a .600 rb and pillow ticking patch.
the point of this? I suppose it’s just shoot it, try different things and have fun.

 

[CTShooter]

As soon as get my hands on one I’ll experiment with you

 

[Zutt-man]

As soon as get my hands on one I’ll experiment with you

Same. I have another month or so before I receive my .62 kit. Although it’ll see the turkey woods more than the deer woods, I plan on putting quite a few RB’s through it to figure out my loads. However, I think I’ll stop testing once I reach the accuracy of the pictures above

And don’t worry, I’ll include pictures

 

[Brokennock]

Same. I have another month or so before I receive my .62 kit. Although it’ll see the turkey woods more than the deer woods, I plan on putting quite a few RB’s through it to figure out my loads. However, I think I’ll stop testing once I reach the accuracy of the pictures above

And don’t worry, I’ll include pictures

I'm not sure I'll be able to improve the accuracy/groups if the second picture at 25 yards. I would like to see if I can match it but with a little more energy without increasing recoil much more. I'm not really usually recoil sensitive but I've also lost a lot of weight/muscle mass in the last year to year and a half.
Also, I need to test and tweek the load to make sure my point of impact is acceptable at 50 yards, and that the load groups within that 9 ring at 50 yards, preferably better than that.

 

[Mad L]

Loyalist Arms "Sea Musket" early version (basically a shortened Brown Bess) using 75gr 2f with .735 round ball and blue pillow ticking (maybe .018).
At 40 yard paced out and she shoots pretty straight (*no rear sight)

The upper left and lower center hits were from the smoothbore, upper right was my .50cal Pennsylvania.
After the photo I kept trading off until not much was left...
I tried buckshot but didnt group well at all, I need to try some loads I have noted from you folk here on the forum.

 

[CTShooter]

Won’t be anytime soon, still working on getting past the last surgery

 

[Stantheman86]

I've used everything from paper cartridges to just dropping a loose ball down the pipe and stuffing a wad of phone book paper over the top and shot nice patterns out of my Pedersoli 1816 Springfield.

It's inexplicably fun to lob balls at 100 or 200 yard targets and actually hit with some of them . Or shooting ragged holes at 50 yards. I mean really. They are fun to shoot, fast loading and effective.

This is why many of the senior Ordnance Officers just wanted to keep issuing .69 Smoothbores to troops during the Civil War. They just work and are effective to 300+ yards when you have groups of men to shoot at. Plus some units opted to keep their 1842 Springfields because fast loading buck and ball was probably the way to go vs the more complicated manual of arms for Minie cartridges.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Rather than bench shoot which can beat one up recoil wise how about using cross sticks stood up?

 

[NorthFork]

Rather than bench shoot which can beat one up recoil wise how about using cross sticks stood up?

YES! This is a brilliant way to shoot heavier recoiling weapons as your body can move more with the recoil making the recoil seem less abusive.