Enlish Style Fowler

[LFord]

I am looking to buy my first flintlock and could use a bit of advice. I want something that would be appropriate for the SE Pennsylvania area and around the 1760's time frame. The only real reference material that I have is the Collector's Illustrated Encyclopedia of the American Revolution and while it has a few civilian guns the emphais is of course on military weapons. If anyone could give me a reference or two that I could go over I sure could use the help.
I have seen three that I like, but are not sure if they would be accurate for the time and area. They are the Cumberland Fowler and Colonial Smoothbore from Early Rustic Arms and the fowler that Mark Avance of TVM builds.
I am comfortable with the idea of an in the white gun, but as this is my first flintlock I don't want to go with a full kit gun.

 

I have seen three that I like, but are not sure if they would be accurate for the time and area. They are the Cumberland Fowler and Colonial Smoothbore from Early Rustic Arms and the fowler that Mark Avance of TVM builds.
I am comfortable with the idea of an in the white gun, but as this is my first flintlock I don't want to go with a full kit gun.

Good thinking, buddy. In the white is a great way to start, because the word "kit" is something of a misnomer. It's a bunch of parts and something that very closely resembles a stock. A more proper term is "component set".

things to conisder in addition to time period and location are caliber and size of the gun. I can recommend Early Rustic arms and will advise you to call Larry and tell him what you are looking for. He will have a good idea of what to put together for you. Matt Avance at TVM can do the same for you.

You might also consider the "Early English" trade gun from North Star West. I built one and it was great except for all of my mistakes. But, it falls into the 1750's period, and is much like a Wilson "chief's grade" style gun.

hope that helps a wee bit

 

[Major2hook]

I have a 20 ga. fowler from TVM ( Signed by Mike Advance) and it is a fine piece. It really isn't a copy of any specific type of mid-18th century fowler but it is very well made and shoots extremely well. I have used it in competition, re-enacting the F&I era and collected small game with it over the past 3 seasons. Not a bad choice, check out their web site and good luck.

 

[LFord]

As far as caliber and barrel length go I was thinking along the lines of a .62 cal with a barrel in the neighborhood of 42". I can deal with a gun being older than the 1760's time frame as I am going to be primarily using it for re-enacting as a civilian around the beginning of the Rev War who is a member of the militia but not a member of a line unit. Caliber is not an issue to me(as far as hunting goes) since I don't hunt but do enjoy target shooting and just generally punching holes in things
I have handled a couple of TVM guns up at Dixon's and they are sweet.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

What is your price range? The English fowler is a lovely and useful piece--well balanced and versatile. It also covers a wide historical era and could have been carried by a number of personas. Often there are some used ones available. Try Track of the Wolf for starters. You are better off paying a little more at the outset and getting a quality gun.

 

[LFord]

I need to keep the price in the $1,000 and under range. I have seen some nice used guns, but I really want an in the white since I like to put some of my own work and time into my hobbies and I can handle the finishing work.
The English Fowler type seemed a good style for what I want to do and I liked the ones I handled at Dixon's. I also liked the French Fusils but I don't think one would really be appropriate for what I want to do with it.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Check out Caywood's web-site. They have an English fowler in the white in your price range. Authentic and of very high quality. Typing caywood gunmakers into your browser window should get you there.

 

[Java Man]

Caywoods look like excellent pcs too. BUT, I think their prices posted do not include the lock. Read the fine print. Not a complaint, just a notice.

 

[Stumpkiller]

BUT, I think their prices posted do not include the lock. Read the fine print. Not a complaint, just a notice

You're probably going to see that become more common. If you buy the lock seperately, you save having to pay the 11% Federal excise tax. That is as much again as the lock costs on a $1000 firearm. And modern locks are so modular as to be interchangable within manufacturer models . . . mostly.

 

[Darkhorse]

It is true that Caywood guns do not include the lock. And the locks just had a price increase. Around 150. to 160. now, according to what you get and whether its left or right.
You pay more for, to me anyway, a lock of unknown quality than you will for a Chambers. Don't make sense to me.
Maybe you could file a siler or L&R to fit the mortice, maybe not. Maybe you could open up the mortice.

One reason these parts cost more here is the way they are manufactured. When the parts return from the foundry as a casting then they are machined to shape. NOT machined by CNC equiptment but the old fashioned way, by machinists. And that is also the reason Siler locks sometimes have a waiting list. That and trying to get good parts from the foundry.
When I asked Jim Chambers why he didn't go the NC route his feelings were that due to the entry cost of equiptment and the added cost of outside programming, plus training to run the equiptment, he would have to sell his locks for a lot more to break even.
After a career in tool design and NC programming and production, I think it could be done a lot easier than he thinks. But I don't want to argue with the best lock designer in this day and age.
Last I heard Getz was still making barrels the old way, hence their long lead times.
I think LC Rice and Green Mountain are both using NC machines.
In the years to come look for these forward thinking companys to flood the market with some fine products at possibly a slightly better price.
And of course someones going to apply it to locks and make a good lock at an attractive price, then all the other lock makers will be playing catch up.

But yes, it is strange that the parts for an old fashioned single barrel ML shotgun costs more than a modern completed one.

 

[lockjaw]

hello to all' i'm new here and shoot a caywood wilson's trade gun. i love the gun, shoots straight, looks great, but the lock eats flints. i have had to rework the frizzen alot until now i can get many shots from a flint. after 2 years i am finally starting to enjoy this gun as more than a wall hanger. i tried to call and talk to caywood, get the old song and dance routine about flints and angles...i politely listen...bottom line is if i had it to do over i would buy a chambers. my problem is being left handed there were few choices, chambers now has a lefty fowler. the other thing i will say is that caywood will not sell parts for their locks, you have to send it back for them to work on, but if you don't like their work in the first place...why would you send it back to them?

 

[musketman]

bottom line is if i had it to do over i would buy a chambers. my problem is being left handed there were few choices, chambers now has a lefty fowler. the other thing i will say is that caywood will not sell parts for their locks,

Perhaps Chambers will sell you a left handed lock for your Caywood? :hmm:

 

[lockjaw]

yeah that's always an option, or at least find a frizzen to fit...for now i'm having fun tinkering with this one.
i am in agreement with darkhorse that with a caywood you are paying more for a lock of unknown quality.

 

[BLAHMAN]

How is it that your frizzen doen't fit? I'm just sort of curious. Is there side slop? Doesn't fit the pan....can you give a description?

 

[lockjaw]

the caywood frizzen fits fine but it ate flints like crazy.
when i wrote that i would like to find a frizzen that fits, i meant from another manufacturer. hope this explains my comment.

 

[musketman]

the caywood frizzen fits fine but it ate flints like crazy.

Could it be that the frizzen's spring is too stout?

 

[Dave K]

Yes, that could be it or even not stout enough and you are getting frizzen bounce. Where the frizzen bounces back and hits the flint a second time.

 

[lockjaw]

maybe i haven't made myself clear, but the problem is fixxed now.the lock sparks well and the flints last. it was a combination of the frizzen spring being too stout and the toe of the frizzen being too long as well as the angle of the frizzen face being almost perpendicular to the flint.yes it was bouncing back and hanging up . the point i am trying to make is that anyone thinking of buying a caywood in my opinion should go with a gun that uses a more widely used lock, that has had the bugs worked out of it, with spare parts available. i personally would not buy a caywood again, even though at long last i am happy with this gun. it's just more hassle than i would have wanted. eace:

 

[LFord]

Stumblin,
Just wanted to thank you for the advice. I spoke to Larry at ERA and am sending my order tonight. Cumberland Fowler with a walnut stock and brass hardware, .62 cal and a 42" barrel. I am getting an in the white gun and plan on a plain oil finish without any type of stain.

 

[Okwaho]

For the area where you live, that will be a nice gun.My problem with your previous post that you were comparing a super lightweight English fowler with an American smooth rifle. My posts and comments were based on a gun suitable for the Southeast.One comment,though, and this is based on refinishing furniture,you might get Larry to let you have a scrap or two of walnut as it will appear in the white and try some fruitwood stain before you put on the final finish. I did an old walnut table last year and it does a great job.I then used cut shellac because I like it on furniture but not on guns. :imo: