enough power??

[ron ward]

given that the hunter is a generally "good shot" and the distance is known, what caliber PRB gun would you consider minimumly adequite for deer out to 100 yds. under typical hunting conditions. i'm not looking for advice to "just get a .54 so you don't have to worry about it", i'm looking for what you would think is the smallest caliber that will obviously work at shorter, more common ranges, but given the above conditions, will do the job reliably if the opportunity presents itself. there are many spots that i hunt where these widely variable ranges exhist.
my state mandates .40 rifled, but i see that as good for sitting in a tree or blind with relativly close shots being the norm and maybe just a bit chancy sitting where it is open enough that a 100 yd. shot very well might present itself as well....convince me otherwise!

 

[BrownBear]

Pure unsupported prejudice, I draw the line at 50 cal for 100 yard deer. Haven't shot deer that far with 50, much less something smaller. I'm not likely to take shots more than 75 yards anyway. I know folks who do very well with 45 out that far and farther, and my hat's off to them. It's just beyond my comfort zone. I'd happily take deer out to 75 with a 45. I'd happily take deer out to 50 with a 40.

But you're asking for opinion and prejudice here rather than science. Now you have mine.

 

[Little Wattsy]

So my arguement would be that you "UP" the caliber untill all contingicies you might realisticaly face are dealt with...
I know a guy who slaughters his cows with a .22 mag so SOMEONE will claim "If ya can hit where yer aiming".... :barf: :barf: :barf:
There are so MENY variables in a hunting situation that downsizing calibers is ALWAYS risky unless the hungter has great or even unusual restraint. Being a great shot is NOT enough. Terain, weather, animal movement, poor judgement, etc ALL compromise the lethality of any round.
So...to my point; I think a .45 RB is a marginal round...A .45 connical might offer more BECAUSE "Terain, weather, animal movement, poor judgement, etc ALL compromise the lethality of any round"..IF an animal is a little further then you thought (OR was big enough that you thought that you might "risk it") AND it moved to a quartering shot...you can see where Im going....
A .50 gives you more....enough more? Certianily with a connical, MAYBE with a RB, definatley Better then a .45!
So take your .54...YES at 100 yards at a quartering deer with a RB. Not sure Id say the same thing for elk...
Now sence they ALL cost the same (guns, bullets, and caps) and the differance in powder is negligable, WHY risk "under gunning" for sport?
This is how I make MY decision..I DO Support any hunter AND his choice of methods as long as its not over the top stupid.

 

[ron ward]

yah, i figure the replies might be pretty opinionated, but that's ok, sometimes opinions are based on good judgement.
i'm planning parts list for a vincent build. i'd like to go with .45 to keep the architecture slim, as they were typicly slim and of smaller bore, compared to a hawkins and heck,... everyboby has a hawkins.
from what i can gather, vincent didn't build too many rifles bigger than .45, but i also don't want to end up thinking i have enough gun for 100 yds., only to find out i don't. i don't plan to sit where i know i'll have to shoot that distance, i just want to know it will reliably, should the shot be there. i have a fair amount of "long shot for deer hunting in wisconsin" experience, so the distance doesn't intimidate at all and i do realize that 100 yds+/- is a good poke for an average ML'er, but as i said, there are allot of spots i can sit where a shot could be at 15 or 100 at any time and i truely enjoy hunting with those variables.

 

[longcruise]

My own line for a prb gun is drawn at .50 cal. It's purely an opinion and comfort level thing. Colorado mulies can be pretty big. So can a Wisconsin whitetail! :shocked2:

 

[Snow on the Roof]

This a common debate. Under IDEAL conditions a .45 with RB is fine on deer out to perhaps 75 yards. When I started my wife this year I put a .50 in her hands and she did well killing a little buck @ 40+ yards. In experienced hands a .50 with RB is an excellent choice out to 100, I restricted my wife to 50 due to her inexperience.

The problem, as I see it, is ideal conditions are not the norm. Oft times that broadside deer turns toward you at the moment of the shot. At 100 yards it is much harder to see a small patch on a deer to aim at. As you age your vision deteriorates... you get the picture. With the style rifle you are considering I'd be more comfortable with a .50 unless you what to go with a fast twist and use a heavy conicle for hunting. Which is the choice a good friend of mine made. A .45 with a custom cut 1-18" barrel. He used it with a .295 grain cast minie to kill a buck at 110 yards this past season.



John

John

 

[RC]

not sure how helpful this may be, but during the presentation about the air rifle lewis an clark took with them, that gun was supposedly designed to shoot the smallest possible ball needed to kill a man at 100 yards...the caliber they used was 46..I figure deer are tougher...I wouldn't go below a 45, dependin on how big yer deer are....I'd use at least a 50........ but that's me... :wink:

 

[ron ward]

wattsy,
well stated advice! and about the same thing i said to a fellow on another forum that wanted to know what people thought about deer hunting with a .223.
believe me... i know what kind of a can of worms i'm dealing with here.
i have no problem going bigger, and haven't locked myself in at .45 yet, for this exact reason. i just want to hear what others with more BP experience have to say.... i am green as grass as far as BP hunting goes, that's why i am taking the time to ask all the crazy questions i can before ordering parts. i'm in my mid fifties, been deer hunting in mid/northern wis. all my life and know the variables well enough to know the tenacity of whitetails and well enough to know to listen to what experience has to say!
your advice is certainly sound and well taken, thank you.

 

[BrownBear]

yah, i figure the replies might be pretty opinionated, but that's ok, sometimes opinions are based on good judgement.
i'm planning parts list for a vincent build. i'd like to go with .45 to keep the architecture slim, as they were typicly slim and of smaller bore, compared to a hawkins and heck,... everyboby has a hawkins.
from what i can gather, vincent didn't build too many rifles bigger than .45, but i also don't want to end up thinking i have enough gun for 100 yds., only to find out i don't. i don't plan to sit where i know i'll have to shoot that distance, i just want to know it will reliably, should the shot be there. i have a fair amount of "long shot for deer hunting in wisconsin" experience, so the distance doesn't intimidate at all and i do realize that 100 yds+/- is a good poke for an average ML'er, but as i said, there are allot of spots i can sit where a shot could be at 15 or 100 at any time and i truely enjoy hunting with those variables.

Sounds like you have your head screwed on pretty straight. If you just respect the limits of the gun and pick your shots, no big deal. It's kinda between you and the mirror where those limits are and how well you stick to them.

I'm reminded of all the years before steel shot that I hunted ducks with a muzzleloader. Heck, I had holes in the pattern at 40 yards any self-respecting duck could fly through. But my loads did just fine at 30 yards. Solution? I moved my decoys closer and hid better. I see you in kinda the same situation with a 45 for deer. Respect its theoretical limits as you're starting out, and with experience you might be able to stretch it a bit.

Here's another example, though contemporary and non-muzzleloading. My favorite modern duck gun is a 20 gauge O/U, even though I've got bigger in the rack. And yeah, I use steel shot. I just kinda got in the habit of keeping my ducks close, and at MY ranges, the 20 and steel is plenty.

If happiness means passing up some long shots, so be it.

 

[larry wv]

No smaller than a .50 bigger would be better. Things aren't always perfect. Larry Wv

 

[ron ward]

snow on the roof,
i figured it was a pretty well asked question...
i had a deer take a step on me last year with a bow, got lucky found it about two hrs. later....i know it happens.
by the way, i got that snow on the roof thing going on too!
i have family in down Mt.Vernon, where abouts are you?

 

[rafterob]

There are enough on here who have plenty of experience with harvesting deer with a .45 so I feel you are good to go. For a little more oomph! you could always develop a load using a conical of some type.

 

[roundball]

Deer are 'big game'...use a big game gun.
A 100 yard round ball gun for consistent success at variable distances under all hunting conditions = .50cal mimimum with .54 all the better.

If you haven't bought the barrel yet, get a .58 (or .54)...and build a .45cal for targets, smaller game/varmints, and close-in deer from a stand later on.

My .02 cents

 

[Ralph Meisse]

See, I am fairly new to this site and until I joined it, I didn't know that I was using a gun that most feel is on the light side. I started about thirty years ago and fell in love with the Kentucky rifle. I looked down the muzzle of a forty-five and said to my self, I sure would hate to get hit with that ball.

I own and shot the 45, 50 and 54. I always felt that the 50 and 54, not to mention the 62, were all too much gun for whitetail. We shoot and I found out to 50 to 70 yards, the 45 was all the gun I needed. I use 90 grains of FFFV powder behind a patched round ball.

I've shot deer in there beds at a range of thirty feet and out to about 75 yards. The 45 caliber always worked for me. I was thinking that in all that time, I believe I have only had two deer get away from me and the reason for them getting away was more because there was no snow on the ground, not because the gun wasn't big enough.

However, that is my humble opinion. It could also be, that before I found this site---I didn't know any better. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[nchawkeye]

Snow on the ground helps in tracking, here in NC we don't usually have that...

From '77-'90 I used a .45 round ball with 75grs of FFF behind her for deer...Most kills were within 60 yards and the ball would have good penetration, even through shoulder blades and the spine...Uaually the ball would be found under the hide on the off side...

Back about 1986, I had a big black bear walk up to within 25 yards of me...When he stood on his hind legs he was taller than me, I'm 6ft 5...

Right then, I decided that a .54 was better...

A .54 gives more exits, and more blood on the ground...I don't believe the deer drop much faster...But I can find them easier...

As I get older, I just can't blood trail as I used to...If a .45 was what I had, I'd use it and keep shots within 75 yards...

 

[Skychief]

100 yards.....well placed shot.....big Midwestern whitetails..............


50 caliber prb will do as a minimum. :thumbsup:

 

[ohio ramrod]

For PRB at 100yds Iwould go with at least a fifty. That said I use a 45 and when the eyes were better I took deer out to 140 yrds shooting mini's , using a rest. My nephews youngest boy uses a 40 with prb and dropped eleven out of twelve deer within ten yrds of where he hit them at ranges of 25 to 75 yrds. But this year he hit but did not drop two, one with his 40 and one with a 12 gauge.I am a firm believer in: " it isn't how hard you hit them, but where you hit them!"

 

[dbutch]

More mass on target wins every time..you can't beat physics.

 

[Dphar]

given that the hunter is a generally "good shot" and the distance is known, what caliber PRB gun would you consider minimumly adequite for deer out to 100 yds. under typical hunting conditions. i'm not looking for advice to "just get a .54 so you don't have to worry about it", i'm looking for what you would think is the smallest caliber that will obviously work at shorter, more common ranges, but given the above conditions, will do the job reliably if the opportunity presents itself. there are many spots that i hunt where these widely variable ranges exhist.
my state mandates .40 rifled, but i see that as good for sitting in a tree or blind with relativly close shots being the norm and maybe just a bit chancy sitting where it is open enough that a 100 yd. shot very well might present itself as well....convince me otherwise!

45 is a realistic minimum.
50 is a very good choice.
54 works fine and is a realistic maximum for American stock designs.
If you want bigger skip 58 and go 62 or 69.
But in 62 I would build an English sporting rifle for recoil management.

Dan

 

[Little Wattsy]

For PRB at 100yds Iwould go with at least a fifty. That said I use a 45 and when the eyes were better I took deer out to 140 yrds shooting mini's , using a rest. My nephews youngest boy uses a 40 with prb and dropped eleven out of twelve deer within ten yrds of where he hit them at ranges of 25 to 75 yrds. But this year he hit but did not drop two, one with his 40 and one with a 12 gauge.I am a firm believer in: " it isn't how hard you hit them, but where you hit them!"

:bull: Deer dont drop within 10 yards hardly EVER! Head and spine shots drop them NOW! EVERYTHING else takes more then 10 yards.
I would suggest that its NOT the most responsible approach to think that you will always have a head or spine shot. I also say that a .40 is about as responsible as the aforementioned .22Mag