Ethical Dilemma?

[smokymountainmike]

I hunt alone most of the time. Now I use a ATV to get a deer out of the woods. If I kill one that is to heavy for me to get on the back of the ATV I drag it to the truck behind the ATV. Back before I got an ATV I made myself a two wheel cart that made the job a lot easier. I take my deer to the processer and have it cubed and ground. I use almost all the meat that way.

 

[nchawkeye]

While I usually hunt private land, I live near the Uwharrie National Forest here in the Piedmont section of North Carolina...I slip off a few times a year with my flinter, a backpack and butt pad and hunt this beautiful area of the state...We still have areas of virgin forest and you can get far enough off the highway that you don't hear any noises from civilization...

Here in NC, you can call your harvest in and write down the harvest number...I then pull the deer up a leaning tree or screw in two eyebolts into two trees that are 4-6 feet apart...Gut the deer and pull up with a rachet pulley, bone out the meat and come out with it...

 

[screamin]

I typically hunt Utah and Nevada every year... alone. Both states have wanton waste of game laws so if you bone out an elk, which I do, you have to take all the meat out. I heard last year a guy forgot to get the tenderloins from an elk and was written a citation. Quite often it takes 3 to 4 trips to get it done. I will do the same with deer. We don't have to take the heart and liver but I will with deer, I won't with elk cause I never gut them.

I'm getting older and picked up a used atv this year to hopefully shorten my packout trips. I also don't go back in to far, I try to keep it under two miles.

 

[adirondack46r]

I'm near Knoxville. If you're close I'll drag your deer.

 

[smokymountainmike]

Screamin, if your atv doesn't have a winch on it I would put one on it. A winch is a VERY handy tool to have at your disposal. I've used mine several times to retrieve a deer that has give up the ghost in a creek etc. Get you a good snatch block to use on your winch cable and you will double the pulling power of your winch.

 

[Stumpkiller]

In NY, if I read the regulations correctly, you can butcher the deer into pieces and then transport the pieces PROVIDED you attach a tag with your name, address, license number, date and signature on each piece, bag or box of venison.

ӢAll portions of deer or bear meat being transported by the taker shall be individually tagged and the tags shall include the name, address, big game license number, the date that the portions were cut, and the signature of the taker. Packaged or boxed portions of venison need only one tag and must be labeled "venison" on the outside of the box. If someone other than the taker is transporting the portions, an additional tag signed by the taker with the names and addresses of the consignee and taker is required for each portion.

As far as the ethics of field butchering off the choice pieces . . . that would depend on what you consider "choice". If you just take the backstraps and leave 80% of the meat behind you're wasteful.

 

[luieb45]

I can't remember the name of it. But a while back I saw an ad for what amounted to a small, battery powered winch. You looped it to a tree 50 yds away from the kill, pulled out the cable(?) and drug it to the tree with the winch. Then move to another tree 50 yds away. So you drag it out in 30 or 50 yd increments.

Maybe that's an option.

There's a WMA in S fl that is narrow and very long with the only non boat access at one extreme end. You can end up a couple/three miles from the truck easy. The rules say you have to remove animals whole. I asked a warden about it and he said the penalty for not bringing it out whole was $25 and nothing else. I told him Id' just pay the fine. He said he didn't blame me and there was probably no one there who would ever actually cite you in that situation.

So there's that to consider as well.

Now that's a slick little device! :grin: Wish I would've thought of that!

 

[Stumpkiller]

Trouble is it probably needed two 4D batteries at 110 lbs. each. :haha:

 

[hanshi]

Up until the past few years I hunted on private land and was able to kill deer close enough to where I could drive up to them in my truck; at worst a drag of just a few yards was required. I made and used a tailgate ramp to make it easy to load them in the truck bed. I've always taken out the whole deer, usually field dressed, but occasionally not. I've generally been a solitary hunter normally going out alone.

The places where I now hunt aren't conducive to getting close with the truck; a drag is usually called for. Because of being disabled, I have to hunt within a short distance of the truck since I don't have an atv. I did buy a hand cranked winch to pull the deer into the truck bed as I'm not remotely able to do it myself. Even using a knife is a very difficult task nowadays. Imagine my pleasant surprise when I dropped a deer some 250 yards from the vehicle and managed to field dress and drag it to the truck by myself. It took a good part of the day and I was laid up for several days after but I was still able to do it! At no point was I even considering leaving anything in the woods 'cept the innards. I've always been taught that "you shoot it; you eat it". That means old toilets, engine blocks and gas cans are safe when I'm in the woods.

 

[cynthialee]

Hunt with a friend and share the work.
or
Draft your sweety into helping. My spouse has been politely informed that there will be some work involved come hunting season.

 

[flyfisher76544]

Talk to your bird hunting buddies. I am sure a couple wouldnt mind helping you if you give them some venison.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Here in the PRoM it would be illegal, until they introduced "phone deer checking". Prior to that you weren't supposed to butcher the animal prior to checking it.

Now as long as you had a tag on the cooler with the meat you'd be OK for the butchering, BUT they'd get you with "improper disposal of a game animal" for the portion you left behind, if they located it, or if somebody complained and you were on public hunting lands.

I think the best solution to you is getting some help. The double amputee vet that hunts the same land that I do has a buddy come when his deer is down. I have responded out to help friends a couple of times, once when one got two deer (long story) and another time when a friend pulled their back moving the deer. I had to come from work both times. They shared deer meat with me so all was good. :grin:

LD

 

[Black Hand]

In Montana, you must take all parts suitable for food (entrails not included). Leaving food parts behind is considered "Wanton waste" and can get you fined, etc.

As to leaving anything (edible) behind, personally I think it is unethical, wasteful and dishonors the animal.

 

[roundball]

In Montana, you must take all parts suitable for food (entrails not included). Leaving food parts behind is considered "Wanton waste" and can get you fined, etc.

In order to enforce such a regulation they surely must have a detailed list of what that includes?
Otherwise it's too ambiguous...so this is a serious question:

Does the Montana Wildlife Dept. have and publish such a list detailing all the parts they decide are suitable for food to ensure that everyone knows what those items are?
Does it include organ meat?
All of them? or just the heart? or just the liver?
Brains?

If they don't, there's no way in the world they could expect each & every hunter to know...so there's no way they could uniformly enforce it that I can see.
:hmm:

 

[Black Hand]

In Montana, you must take all parts suitable for food (entrails not included). Leaving food parts behind is considered "Wanton waste" and can get you fined, etc.

In order to enforce such a regulation they surely must have a detailed list of what that includes?
Otherwise it's too ambiguous...so this is a serious question:

Does the Montana Wildlife Dept. have and publish such a list detailing all the parts they decide are suitable for food to ensure that everyone knows what those items are?
Does it include organ meat?
All of them? or just the heart? or just the liver?
Brains?

If they don't, there's no way in the world they could expect each & every hunter to know...so there's no way they could uniformly enforce it that I can see.
:hmm:

They DO specify in the hunting regulations which parts are suitable for food. Internal organs are not included.

MT Deer, Elk and Antelope Regulations (http://fwp.mt.gov/fwpDoc.html?id=54854)
Waste of Game
”¢ Hunters, or persons in possession of a game animal or game animal parts, are prohibited from wasting or rendering unfit for human consumption, any part of a game animal that is defined as “suitable for food.”
Ӣ For big game animals (excluding mountain lions) all of the four quarters above the hock,including loin and backstrap are considered suitable for food.

Turkey Regulations (http://fwp.mt.gov/eBook/hunting/regulations/2012/springturkey2012/index.html)
Wanton Waste
It is illegal to waste any part of any game animal, game bird or game fish suitable for food. Following are turkey parts suitable for food: breasts, thighs and wings.

 

[roundball]

Now that's excellent...so leaving head/neck/ribcage/vertebrae/lower legs would be fine...sensible.
Thanks

 

[BrownBear]

I think that points out why it's so important to know the regs for the place you hunt. Leaving the neck, lower leg and rib meat in the field would get you totally busted in Alaska. It all has to come out. Guys that try to apply their own state regs to Alaska buy themselves lots of trouble and extra expense.

In an interesting Alaska twist, all recoverable meat has to be removed from the field BEFORE you can bring out the rack. Lotta folks get busted on that one too.

 

[Black Hand]

Now that's excellent...so leaving head/neck/ribcage/vertebrae/lower legs would be fine...sensible.
Thanks

The wrinkle is that evidence of sex must remain attached (to the carcass) for transport. So, ultimately, you must bring out the head and/or genitals along with the meat. A FWP officer can also require you to take them to the site of the kill.

Evidence Required of Game Animal’s Sex and Species
”¢ It is illegal to possess or transport the carcass of any big game animal unless evidence of the animal’s sex and species remains naturally attached to its carcass or a portion of the carcass.
”¢ Evidence of an animal’s sex and species must remain naturally attached until the carcass:
”“ Is at the final place of storage; or
”“ Cut and wrapped in serving size; or
”“ Is at commercial meat processing facility; or
”“ Is at licensed taxidermist
Ӣ If the head or antlers are removed, evidence of sex in the form of testicles, penis, scrotum, udder or vulva must remain naturally attached.
For example, boned out or quartered animals need evidence of sex naturally attached to a portion of the meat.

Kill Site Verification
As a condition of hunting in Montana, if requested to do so by an FWP warden, you are required to return to the kill site.

I make it a habit to read all of this material in the hunting regulations EACH year, even though it rarely changes. Better safe than banned from hunting...

 

[roundball]

I make it a habit to read all of this material in the hunting regulations EACH year, even though it rarely changes. Better safe than banned from hunting...

Agree...I do the same...part of the ritual in prepping for each upcoming season.
And the good news is that a few years ago, our Wildlife Dept. started highlighting any new or changed regs in red print in the annual regulations digest.

 

[Lonegun1894]

It would be unlawful here in TX also, and personally, I also believe unethical. Would fall under wasting a natural resource, which in this case would be the animal or edible parts of it. I also vote for getting someone to help. I came out for a friend who had injured his back but still insisted on hunting a couple years ago. He killed the buck, then called me to come drag it our and butcher it for him. He offered to share the meat, but on the way out, a spike buck they had been after all season as a cull deer stood and watched me drag the friends deer, so I took him with my handgun and had my own to dress in addition to his. Worked out great as far as I was concerned. I have been called out to drag, clean, track, etc quite a few times over the years, and am glad to do it the vast majority of the time, so I'm sure you can find someone who would be glad to help too, just have to ask the right person. Best of luck.