Everything .40 Cal. Muzzleloader

[Gordoncourtney]

I don’t know about this…the .303 is early modern smokeless, it’s ballistically a different beast than a .40 calibre muzzleloader. I don’t think it’s realistic to make direct comparisons.

I’m sorry to hear about the state of things in Great Britain…seems that even though they separated from the EU, still couldn’t help going Woke.

Yes I was demonstrating shot placement on say elephant by our great African hunters. The 303 had a power around 2500 ft lbs , prior to that it was 8 & 4 bore. There’s a clip on utube shooting an elephant shot with a 4 bore a slow death for the elephant with poor body shots My 450-400 unmentionable double , steel jacketed dangerous game bullets , great for Africa 4125 ft lbs of energy great for elephant head shots and cape buff

With a BP .400 you might just get up to 2000 ft lbs but probably more like 1400 ftlbs To get to 3700 ft lbs you woul need to go up to like a .6 bore like my .623 bore cape rifle made for African farmers

So all in all thinking would I go up against a bear with a muzzle loading .400 many did I guess and many the bear won

Even .5 BP cartridge doubles , I have one, only produce 2800 ft lbs of energy , my ..36 ML double only produces 900 ft lbs So I recon for bear or elk I would go for a .5 plus every time. For my wife a .4 would be great for rabbits squirrels and the odd deer

Just buy what makes You happy. I have 23 guns still not happy. Ha ha ha

It’s interesting rambling along with thoughts on say 1775 hunting still applies today

Great to chat and challenge our thoughts Love from
Me and Joan , London
Ps Joan hated guns. Tough

 

[springfield art]

Quote on the early Hawkens:

“Jacob Hawken started his formal gunsmithing career as an armorer at Harpers Ferry National Armory, then part of Virginia, in 1808. The armory pay rolls place him on staff there until February of 1818. The first track of Jacob out west in Missouri is a deed for land in New Madrid, also in 1818. By 1825, he had set up a shop in St. Louis, right next to the Mississippi River.”

I’d say, based on the historical dates, Early Hawken Rifles were Flintlocks…The Samual Hawken Rifles, of the 1850’s were most likely percussion as no Flintlock Hawken from that time period has been recovered…However, of the Known Samual Hawken Rifles, a couple “could have been converted to percussion”…wouldn’t it be awesome if a Flintlock Hawken were to come to light?

https://www.nrablog.com/articles/20...ontribution-to-the-evolution-of-american-arms
Kind of nice how this thread is progressing by the way…

I've read where no one has ever found a Flint Hawken. But I guess the interest and lore about these uniquely American guns will keep the pot boiling for some time! They are the very picture of "handsome" and utilitarian!

 

[springfield art]

If you are not a gunny person it’s a green and pleasant land Full of foreigners , It’s the price of petrol and diesel that’s pissing us all off. £1.98/ lt But we are all suffering on that count world wide , not much cheaper in EU , think they are suffering more than us , and our pensions are not keeping up with prices. I should be spending my money on guns boats and things now , our pension is only £1000 a month , paying £374 a month on local council tax Recon we get through £30k a year with savings going down fast m My son has. a Tesla “ I haven’t been to a petrol station in 4 years. Lots of Tesla cars around And when will we see tasty USA and Argentine beef in the shops not to mention NZ lamb. Thanks to you lot across the pond helping the Ukranians smash the Russians to bits , hope the Russians suffer in the end

Peace from uk

I was always a big fan of Maggie Thatcher and Boris Johnson! Not to mention the historic giant, Churchill! But us Americans don't have to be directly affected by a PM's politics. Oh, and the Queen, probably the very last of classic old-World royalty! Even Americans love her!

 

[Rock Home Isle]

I've read where no one has ever found a Flint Hawken. But I guess the interest and lore about these uniquely American guns will keep the pot boiling for some time! They are the very picture of "handsome" and utilitarian!

When you look at the dates that Hawken boys were in business and rifles were made, you know that flintlock Hawkens were sold.

 

[Coinneach]

Not yet- my mold should arrive today or Monday. Denim patches might give me a way to use up some of these jeans I’m going to fit back into one day…
Jay

Why not cut a hank of denim off the women wearing the ragged hole Jeans we see around nowadays, its not as if theyd notice !

 

[Coinneach]

For years the .303 was used to shoot elephant due to the quality of ammunition so nothing wrong with a .400’ ML. It’s purely shot placement that counts and practice practice. Just being picky now as not many seem to use a chrono Remember Graeham Wrights book. “ if the velocity is right then the charge is right”. Flintlocks are for patched ball but how does that compare with conical when hunting and long range Always wanted to fit a scope on a flintlock to see how accurate they can really be at long range. So many unanswered questions. Nice to chat.
Ps I have so many guns to shoot and test but alas the police took away my gun licences. I think they want to reduce the number of guns in circulation , so each year we have taken £6553 guns out of circulation.

Cooler in west London today. My som 50
took a little girl to Disneyland Paris with her mum. It was hot and packed out 1 1/2 hours queue to get on anything. My kids went to the real one in Florida 12 &14 36 years ago. A week before Xmas it was empty and utter magic even for me


.

Its damn sad to read and hear about how miserable life is for most people in the once Great Britain.

 

[Coinneach]

I've read where no one has ever found a Flint Hawken. But I guess the interest and lore about these uniquely American guns will keep the pot boiling for some time! They are the very picture of "handsome" and utilitarian!

I had a GRRW (South Australian branch) full stock Hawken rifle in Flintlock .54 made in the 80's, but it ended up being too heavy a gun for me.

 

[Coinneach]

I had a GRRW (South Australian branch) full stock Hawken rifle in Flintlock .54 made in the 80's, but it ended up being too heavy a gun for me.

I suspect that most of the originals would have been converted over to Half Stock and Percussion, if not Hook breeches as time went on.

 

[Jay Templin]

Well, y’all, the mould came in today’s mail, and I couldn’t resist putting it through its paces. I just need to add a front sight. You can see where the old one was. It was originally made with a bone blade sight, according to the builder’s son. Clearly, it didn’t last. I figure I’ll try cutting one and gluing it down, and then if it seems to work, I’ll make a point of carrying a spare. If not, I guess I’ll switch to brass. What’s a good height to start with for a front sight?
Jay

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Its damn sad to read and hear about how miserable life is for most people in the once Great Britain.

What do you expect Indians an foreigners running our country , Moslem mayor of London. Foreigners , out voted us whites , London being more black than white , so are other cities . No Anglo Saxons around theses days. We brought it on ourselves , being kind, “ poor people welcome to England “ even Borris was American Turkish. But he was ok. No
It’s fine. The EU don’t run us anymore. Great But cost of things going up It’s a shotgun country ? You cannot shoot robbers and intruders. understandable rifles to dangerous with so many people around It’s only miserable as I cannot shoot my ml rifles even on a range police won’t give me an S1 or S2 cert should take up fishing. But we are the centre of the world for travel. £199 across the Chanel and we are in France or fly to the Cannaries 4 hours away Every body wants to live here from Asia and Africa crossing in rubber boats We live in a prosperous part of the country. So cannot complain. It’s just the cost of fuel that’s pissing us off. Thing is there’s no wild country in UK not like Africa or Alaska , but we have Norway elk and bear there. And wild Carpathian Mountains as wild as it gets. I guess you could call uk civilised no adventure , adventure is the key word , I even found Western Australia civilised ha ha one can drone on all day People moan about our health service but it’s free and the best in the world for most of the population , better than private for things like cancer .


One can moan all day but it’s the world we live in. We must all stop buying from China or they will take and rule the world. My sons Stephen. got a Tesla but it’s got no charisma , we are just poor pensioners living on £11k pension so we spend are savings. Stephen days “ daddy”
“how can you live on £11k we spend that on biscuits. He’s wealthy director of Dyson. “

Such is life in this green and pleasant land always glad to get back to uk. See you

 

[harleynut]

I use 10oz duck cloth availbe thru amazon or A local fabric store its a true .018 after its washed a few times brought my rice barreled tc hawken into a 1/2" tight group!

 

[BigAl52]

My .40 is a walnut killer extraordinaire! My shooting buddy came over last Sunday afternoon, after shooting 25 yard targets off hand he noticed my walnut tree had nuts on it and asked if there is anything in that general direction we'd hurt. There is nothing for at least a mile, so he picked one out and promptly missed with his first shot, so he loads back up and this time he shoots it out. Apparently, he hit it right in the top as it just fell to the ground. I loaded up and picked one out and fired, mine must've been a dead center hit because pieces of walnut flew everywhere, he just shook his head and walked off. I'll fess up, I hit the walnut I was shooting at, but it was outhouse luck as I'm not a good offhand shooter, he on the other hand is an excellent offhand shooter. Sometime lucky is better than good.

The turkey and rifle posts remind me of something that happened where I live close to 30 years ago. We didn't have wild turkeys until probably early 90's and for the most part what turkeys we had come from Missouri, we traded deer for turkeys. The turkeys were released on select private property where they stood the best chance of surviving. During the modern rifle deer season that fall there was an off-duty game warden hunting one of the farms that had some of the Missouri turkeys on it. From where he was sitting, he could see onto the adjoining farm and the turkeys were over there feeding along. He said there was a shot and one of the hens fell over and flopped a few times. Now keep in mind there was no turkey season in my county yet and it has never been legal here to hunt them with a rifle in my state, let alone with a centerfire. After seeing the turkey go down, the game warden lets his rifle down and climbs down from the tree and heads to the property line, there was a guy walking toward the turkey. When he sees the other hunter (game warden unknown to him at the moment) he calls out, "hey man I just got me a turkey". The game warden replied, 'you sure did, now I need to speak to you". I forget what the fine was, but it was substantial, and it cost him his rifle and I think five years of hunting privileges. And he didn't even get to eat the turkey. LOL

Cant help but notice the Dart. Had one 69 convertible it was just a 318 but that was a great car.

 

[1BadDart]

Cant help but notice the Dart. Had one 69 convertible it was just a 318 but that was a great car.

I’ve had this on for 17 or so years, it’s currently powered by a pump gas 434” small block mopar. So far it’s been 10.008 @ 134.74, it will run down in the 9’s.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Can I add. Just looked up swiss10.4mm ( .410”) it’s around 1300 ft sec and 1300 ft lbs it was in the days of BP a military rifle, most rifles including my 450-400 are actually .410

Fortunately a ml is not restricted by the Swiss brass cartridge. So getting enough powder to hit 1800 ft sec. For max ft lbs of energy is not a problem

 

[Rock Home Isle]

Link to .40 calibre thread

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/40-cal-power.149846/

 

[smoothshooter]

What do you expect Indians an foreigners running our country , Moslem mayor of London. Foreigners , out voted us whites , London being more black than white , so are other cities . No Anglo Saxons around theses days. We brought it on ourselves , being kind, “ poor people welcome to England “ even Borris was American Turkish. But he was ok. No
It’s fine. The EU don’t run us anymore. Great But cost of things going up It’s a shotgun country ? You cannot shoot robbers and intruders. understandable rifles to dangerous with so many people around It’s only miserable as I cannot shoot my ml rifles even on a range police won’t give me an S1 or S2 cert should take up fishing. But we are the centre of the world for travel. £199 across the Chanel and we are in France or fly to the Cannaries 4 hours away Every body wants to live here from Asia and Africa crossing in rubber boats We live in a prosperous part of the country. So cannot complain. It’s just the cost of fuel that’s pissing us off. Thing is there’s no wild country in UK not like Africa or Alaska , but we have Norway elk and bear there. And wild Carpathian Mountains as wild as it gets. I guess you could call uk civilised no adventure , adventure is the key word , I even found Western Australia civilised ha ha one can drone on all day People moan about our health service but it’s free and the best in the world for most of the population , better than private for things like cancer .


One can moan all day but it’s the world we live in. We must all stop buying from China or they will take and rule the world. My sons Stephen. got a Tesla but it’s got no charisma , we are just poor pensioners living on £11k pension so we spend are savings. Stephen days “ daddy”
“how can you live on £11k we spend that on biscuits. He’s wealthy director of Dyson. “

Such is life in this green and pleasant land always glad to get back to uk. See you

The health care isn’t free.
You are still paying for it.
I have decent health insurance here in the US and serious cancer treatment or heart surgery is pretty well covered.
And no waiting for months for treatment.
Our out of control immigration of Third World people with no job skills, money, or any past contribution of tax money or insurance premiums may destroy it all, but for now the medical system is still ok in most parts of the country. I have younger relatives that are on “Obamacare”, and their premiums are higher than mine, and the coverage is not as good.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

The health care isn’t free.
You are still paying for it.
I have decent health insurance here in the US and serious cancer treatment or heart surgery is pretty well covered.
And no waiting for months for treatment.
Our out of control immigration of Third World people with no job skills, money, or any past contribution of tax money or insurance premiums may destroy it all, but for now the medical system is still ok in most parts of the country. I have younger relatives that are on “Obamacare”, and their premiums are higher than mine, and the coverage is not as good.

Yes but what about the poor and old that cannot afford health care insurance in USA and developing countries like Nigeria where I lived and worked for 3 years For me the Uk health service is brilliant ,but I could not afford health care and private treatment. My kids have health insurance provided by their companies , but they don’t cover everything.

 

[nkbj]

Got one spare lefthanded New Englander barrel and yall sure are making me have tinkering thoughts.

 

[smoothshooter]

Yes but what about the poor and old that cannot afford health care insurance in USA and developing countries like Nigeria where I lived and worked for 3 years For me the Uk health service is brilliant ,but I could not afford health care and private treatment. My kids have health insurance provided by their companies , but they don’t cover everything.

The following rant is not directed at you, Gordon.
I have no reason to believe you are anything other than a good, decent , productive member of society. I truly feel bad for you about the government manure you UK residents have been dealing with for a long time.

Nigeria’s problems are Nigeria’s problems. For all kinds of cultural reasons, things will never get better.
If someone wants to try to improve the lives of Nigerians or anyone else in another country there are all kinds of charities that will gladly take donations of money and durable goods. It is not right for your government or mine to forcibly take money we have earned and waste most of it on Third World countries where some tribal chief of warlord is going to end up with most of it anyway.
No one is turned away from the hospitals here if they need need surgery or treatment.
In a government run system there is no competition, so medical care is so inefficient that waiting lists are long and treatment is rationed.
If the deadbeats and layabouts don’t have the gumption and foresight to afford some kind of insurance, that’s on them.
Seems like a lot of the ones here that claim they can’t afford any kind of insurance somehow are able to come up with enough money to buy cigarettes, video games, alcohol, late model cars, and tattoos.
And a bunch of them have more kids than they can financially support.
When the productive people have to pay the bills for too many unproductive people, soon everybody suffers.
My wife and I developed marketable job skills years ago, and have been constantly employed except for when I was off work for most of a year because of business shutdowns during the China-Virus insanity.
We never spent more than we made ( actually saved a fair amount ).
Never made any babies with people we weren’t married to.
Never had more kids than we could afford.
Stayed out of trouble with the law.
Wife and I both served in the military.
Graduated High School, and got technical training and certifications that employers like to see.

If I come off as a grumpy old man, that is because sometimes I am, and with good reason.
It’s just that I have done most things in life right, and over time I get more and more tired of paying for other people’s screwups and stupid life choices.

 

[Mulebrain]

Why cant folks stick to the topic? We have other areas to discuss everything else.

Lets get back to the .40!