Everything .40 Cal. Muzzleloader

[Rock Home Isle]

What a beautiful blue bird day to hit a mountain range and go shooting. The one thing I miss about the FtLupton Range is cell phone service. I am unable to post my progress in real time…I have to wait till I’m back in town.

Today is Tuesday, my triggers came back from Kibler yesterday…so yeah, 1st opportunity to hit the range.

Trust me, somewhere out there is my target at 50 yrds. We started shooting at 8:30, fired my last shot just before noon. It was a long day.

Here’s my targets for the 0.390 RB; left to right, 35 grains fffg, then 40 grains fffg in the middle, and far right is 45 grains fffg.

There are two distinct groups on each target, excluding the 45 grain fffg target. My 1st time through, I aimed at the black bull…then went and shot some groups for the .380 RB, came back and re-shot the 35 grain target and the 40 grain target, using the blue dot as my aim point.

When 1st shooting, I had a nice group of 3 shots, & 35 grains fffg. I know I pulled one of those shots. What has caught my attention is the final group, after hours of shooting, that final 40 grain load grouping looks real promising.

So making headway

Here’s the .380 RBs at 50 yrds

These targets are the .380 RB, using a heavy canvas patching, moose milk lube. From left to right, 30 grains fffg, 35 grains fffg in the middle, and 40 grains fffg on the far right.

I finally had to replace the original Kibler flint…so I got almost 90 shots on that flint, before I had to replace it. So that tuning of the main-spring was beneficial.

 

[jcs266]

I cast 3 different size balls last weekend... .385", .390" and .395". I'm planning on shooting tomorrow morning and will experiment with these. Will try different patch thicknesses, powder charges, etc. I can't get it all tested in one morning but that's my goal within the next week or so.

Best I can tell with a caliper is my bore is about .395" x .411" (lands n grooves)

I'll try 30gr, 35gr and 40gr charges of Goex FFFg

I'll report my findings!

 

[jcs266]

Rock Home Isle,

I'm sure enjoying your range reports. And the pics are great - I LOVE that Kibler... What a beauty!

 

[Gordoncourtney]

The Swiss 10.4 mm around 1870 to late 1880 is actually a .41 Swiss martini rifle

I have this percussion saddle carbine My brother got it in a junk shop back in the late 1960s did it up and he kindly gave it to me.

At some time way back in history it has been fitted with the barrel of a Swiss martini modified for percussion. In actual fact it ain’t bad but never fired it. It’s got a 27” barrel
Nice little gun. Not measured twist rate it’s just a wall hanger but could be good fun in the woods. I’ll never get a licence at my age 79 in uk.

They even took away my shotguns as I might shoot robbers. Did not bother me much as I am a dab hand with my compound bow. That would hurt. Robbers can beat me up but don’t lay a finger on them they have human rights you know

It’s a good steel barrel so it could take a good charge of BP making it far more powerful than the originL10.4

It’s turned cold west of London not nice on patio drinking coffee winter will soon be upon us

Enjoy

 

[garypl]

What a beautiful blue bird day to hit a mountain range and go shooting. The one thing I miss about the FtLupton Range is cell phone service. I am unable to post my progress in real time…I have to wait till I’m back in town.

Today is Tuesday, my triggers came back from Kibler yesterday…so yeah, 1st opportunity to hit the range.

Trust me, somewhere out there is my target at 50 yrds. We started shooting at 8:30, fired my last shot just before noon. It was a long day.

Here’s my targets for the 0.390 RB; left to right, 35 grains fffg, then 40 grains fffg in the middle, and far right is 45 grains fffg.

There are two distinct groups on each target, excluding the 45 grain fffg target. My 1st time through, I aimed at the black bull…then went and shot some groups for the .380 RB, came back and re-shot the 35 grain target and the 40 grain target, using the blue dot as my aim point.

When 1st shooting, I had a nice group of 3 shots, & 35 grains fffg. I know I pulled one of those shots. What has caught my attention is the final group, after hours of shooting, that final 40 grain load grouping looks real promising.

So making headway

Here’s the .380 RBs at 50 yrds

These targets are the .380 RB, using a heavy canvas patching, moose milk lube. From left to right, 30 grains fffg, 35 grains fffg in the middle, and 40 grains fffg on the far right.

I finally had to replace the original Kibler flint…so I got almost 90 shots on that flint, before I had to replace it. So that tuning of the main-spring was beneficial.

I don't recall reading about your modification to the main spring - what did you do?

 

[Rock Home Isle]

I don't recall reading about your modification to the main spring - what did you do?

I know I posted about it, but I can’t recall which thread. I remember someone posting…”Don’t be foolish, don’t mess with the mainspring on a Kibler Lock…” or words to that effect.

The lock, as it arrived was pretty stout. So I removed the mainspring and using a belt grinder, ice water and 600 grit paper…I took metal off the long arm of the mainspring. Much easier to cock the rifle, flints glide down the surface of the frizzen, beautiful sparks…and the first flint went ~90+/- shots before it needed replacement. So yeah…I’ll give that a “worth it”.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

You can get just over 2000 ft sec with BP but is it possible or practical or accurate to shoot 4 off. 103g lead balls together or with a patch between them. I was just thinking of the guy that lost his face on another string

Could be an interesting subject or plain daft



Oimage removed by Meriwether. Too gory.

 

[Rock Home Isle]

You can get just over 2000 ft sec with BP but is it possible or practical or accurate to shoot 4 off. 103g lead balls together or with a patch between them. I was just thinking of the guy that lost his face on another string

Could be an interesting subject or plain daft



O

Are we Squirrel Hunting this morning ?

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Are we Squirrel Hunting this morning ?

shot dozens of squirrels last two years in long garden , often 3 a day. No rabbits either the blood pox had killed them to. Both are tasty especially squirrels You cannot hunt with real guns in most of uk. Shotguns ok So real guns hang on the wall. Guess I could burn a bit of BP at same time and get into the spirit of things. Love the smell

Happy days from uk

 

[jcs266]

Well today I finally got a chance to get out on my range. The way it is set up I only have 25 yards distance. Plenty for handgun shooting but rifle of course I have to set a target up on the hillside. I just went with the 25 yard range today for preliminary sighting in of this .40 cal “Dixie Cub” by Pedersoli.

Last weekend I cast three different sizes of round balls to experiment with. Today I started with .385” balls and .015” patches with RWS 1075 caps.

I took a knee and used a 55 gallon drum as a “bench rest”. Starting out with 30gr of Goex FFFg then on to 35gr and 40gr.

I must say I am pleased at this point. It shoots centered and within 1 inch below the point of aim. If I’m allowed to exclude a couple of flyers the rounds were almost touching most of the time.

These sights are very tiny, so I think part of my problem is seeing the sights well enough. But I certainly cannot complain about these groups. The balls loaded very easily, I was able to start them with just thumb pressure. They glide it in easily with the wood ramrod.

In the next few days I will try .390” balls with these same powder / patches.

It was a beautiful sunny day in the mid-70s. A slight breeze from the left but nothing that gave me any trouble. Once I get a base established for which combo works best I will then begin working at various longer ranges.

Goex FFFg with .385” RB / .015” pillow ticking and RWS 1075 cap

35gr of Goex FFFg (point of aim is bottom edge of black square)

 

[1BadDart]

My .40 shoots best with 55 grains of 3F.

 

[jcs266]

 

[Rudyard]

Re 40 cals I started off my first rifled gun with a 40 cal Delcur barrel in one in 48 pitch 31" oct brl from Kit Ravenshears 'Normans of Framlingham' shop. UK ranges started at 100 yards so the ball was not that good but a shorted picket style patched bullet MQuires made me shot like a 451 . it was flint & took 1& a half drams . Lost it to Queensland gun law changes used to leave it on a cattle station .As rifle it was a clumsy affair noddingly after the Grice Rifle illustrated in Blackmore British Military Firearms only I added a cheek piece & a Serpant side plate .it might turn up was a poor affair but my first rifle ..
Rudyard

 

[smoothshooter]

After reading a post yesterday about .40 cal's it sparked off a great conversation with Rock Home Isle in PM's about them which we both really enjoyed.
He suggested to start a thread specifically for .40 cal's & everything about them. I thought that that was a great idea & well worth doing, so - here it is.
After more than 30yrs of mostly .50 cal muzzleloading & a few yrs of .45 inline ( which I absolutely love ) I came across a TC Seneca that Bob Hoyt did a re-bore on to .400/.408.
The bullets I shot are NOT going to be a popular subject in here, so I won't get into any of that. If anyone wants to know anything about that - PM me & I'll be happy to share that info.
I loved the caliber, but NOT that small framed Seneca stock which did not fit my body & wasn't fun to shoot, but the gun shot extremely well - well enough to easily take turkey at over 100yds with.
It set me to doing a lot of research & reading about .40 cal muzzleloaders & their history & their ballistics capabilities including hunting & long-range bench rest competition. I wish I'd have learned about them, 35yrs ago when I started muzzleloading ( especially the .40 1:16 twist Gibbs ), bc I'd have sought one out & would absolutely still be loving & shooting it today. Unfortunately, they are out of my financial reach today, or I'd have one right now. So, I'm on my second .40 cal sidelock custom fast twist barrel with a modern Sporter stock & I'm soon getting back my custom .40 1:14 Brux barrel TC Omega smokeless muzzleloader that I'm over the moon excited about.
I'd like to hear about everyone's experience, likes/dislikes, pros/cons etc. what type of .40 muzzleloader they have, what twist, what projectiles, powder type & charge they use, what purpose they use it for - hunting or mid-long range target shooting etc.
The .40 has a long-standing reputation for being an incredible long-range target gun, but it also has a long reputation for being highly finicky to shoot for many guys. It long ago had a pretty good following, but it fell out of favor with many bc they never learned how to work through its peculiarities & issues. The ones that did work through them, love & appreciate them to death.
I'm looking forward to hearing about everyones experience with their .40 muzzleloader regardless of what type or what they use it for.

I have never had a .40, but want one badly. I have a Tip Curtis .45 Early Lancaster now.
I don’t know, maybe there is not that much difference between the two calibers.
I want a flint, 38” barrel or less, swamped, “ A “ weight, single trigger, Chambers vent liner, patch box ( if possible ).
Darned hard to find one that is already built.
I am getting old, so want one while my eyesight is still good, and I am still alive. Am 66 now.

 

[smoothshooter]

My first 40 was an Iron Mounted Pennsylvania Flintlock rifle. I believe the unknown builder rifled the bore himself as there are “chatter marks” in the barrel so it fouls terribly. I don’t know whether to try and polish it out or send it to Hoyt and have it made into a 45. The barrel is 42” and a little front-heavy. I’m not sure what the twist is. I don’t think I’ve measured it yet. Rather than cut dovetails for the sights, he made these gawdy bases. He also over-sanded the side plates. I call her “Ugly Betty” (photo 1)!

Last year, I purchased a Chambers Issac Haines 40 from one of our members. It has a 38” swamped barrel (photo 2). The twist is 1-48”. I’ve shot it out to 100 yards. The accuracy is phenomenal! I’m just having a hard time getting used to the full stock. I’ve shot half-stocks with Crescent butt-plates for 35 years. I use it mainly for target shooting. Although, 40 is legal for deer in my state. I’ve played around with powder charges. I usually shoot 40 grains, .395 patched round ball with Bumbling Bear Grease lube (Bear grease and Bee’s wax) from October Country on a .018 Pillow Ticking patch (photo 3). I’ve tried 50 with not-so-good results. 60 grains has the same Point of Impact as 40 but with more foot-pounds of energy (photo 4). Shots 1-3 were 40, 4-6 were 50, and 7-9 were 60.

I also have a 40-caliber English Flintlock pistol made by Hollie Wessel of Lake Shasta, CA, for target work (photo 5). My load is a .395 RB, .018 pre-lubed Pillow Ticking, and 20 grains of 3F BP.

I’m wanting to buy a Neil Fields 40-caliber Vincent Cap-lock rifle (photo 6). This one is basically the same dimensions as a Traditions Crockett. I’m not sure of the twist but most small bores come with 1-48”. Pecatonica River has a kit with a 36” barrel, and a Golcher Percussion lock. I don’t see many Flintlock Vincents. They seem to be like hen’s teeth.

One thing I’ve loved about the 40 besides accuracy is the economy of shooting one; approximately 76 balls and 175 shots to the pound of lead and powder! Plus, Flints locally are $2.50 each. I can get between 80 and 100 shots with a good lock.

Send it to Hoyt and have him reline it to .40.

 

[Rudyard]

I have never had a .40, but want one badly. I have a Tip Curtis .45 Early Lancaster now.
I don’t know, maybe there is not that much difference between the two calibers.
I want a flint, 38” barrel or less, swamped, “ A “ weight, single trigger, Chambers vent liner, patch box ( if possible ).
Darned hard to find one that is already built.
I am getting old, so want one while my eyesight is still good, and I am still alive. Am 66 now.

Well we share the interest in 40 cals but Ime 78 next week Still alive (mostly) bit 'creaky ', Hills got steeper but still go up them. I once knew Chuck Bender he was a devotee of the 40 cal made his talk you might say but for larger game its limited despite Ned Roberts & his Famous Uncle Alvaro likeing such small bores for Bear hunts though I think it was for picket bullets Muley Ball from muzzle Blasts seemed to like the 40 cal from not always reliable memory .
Regards Rudyard

 

[Ninering62]

What a beautiful blue bird day to hit a mountain range and go shooting. The one thing I miss about the FtLupton Range is cell phone service. I am unable to post my progress in real time…I have to wait till I’m back in town.

Today is Tuesday, my triggers came back from Kibler yesterday…so yeah, 1st opportunity to hit the range.

Trust me, somewhere out there is my target at 50 yrds. We started shooting at 8:30, fired my last shot just before noon. It was a long day.

Here’s my targets for the 0.390 RB; left to right, 35 grains fffg, then 40 grains fffg in the middle, and far right is 45 grains fffg.

There are two distinct groups on each target, excluding the 45 grain fffg target. My 1st time through, I aimed at the black bull…then went and shot some groups for the .380 RB, came back and re-shot the 35 grain target and the 40 grain target, using the blue dot as my aim point.

When 1st shooting, I had a nice group of 3 shots, & 35 grains fffg. I know I pulled one of those shots. What has caught my attention is the final group, after hours of shooting, that final 40 grain load grouping looks real promising.

So making headway

Here’s the .380 RBs at 50 yrds

These targets are the .380 RB, using a heavy canvas patching, moose milk lube. From left to right, 30 grains fffg, 35 grains fffg in the middle, and 40 grains fffg on the far right.

I finally had to replace the original Kibler flint…so I got almost 90 shots on that flint, before I had to replace it. So that tuning of the main-spring was beneficial.

WOW! How did I miss this pic, its just stunning.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

I wish you lot would shut up about the .400’and get on and buy one it will kill anything on the planet with a 400gbullet BP and 2100 ft sec. Your subject matter upsets me but I struggle on . I was fighting kidney cancer in 2006 when I caught the double rifle disease, well I have hunted when I lived in Lagos Africa with a shotgun. so I got two ml .6 , one cape rifle other flint, it did not stop there and I got a .36 ml
1885 unused but I think it’s 1924 by midland gun company then I bought a rusty 577-500 no 2. It was in fact unused at Holts auction. Then in 2009 back in hospital I read about the 450- 400 nitro tigers in India , ivory in Africa, “it’s good for thee elephants but get a .5 if you want to shoot 6. “‘ So survived that massive cancer op. It took three years to find a 450-400
, ok it’s an unmentionable , just came back from killing Cape buffalo and owner died. And I got it at Bonhams auction London. With a bit of inheritance and making 70 When I sometimes read about the .410 on the forum my eyes water , I have a .400/450 and I cannot shoot it in uk. I would have taken it to Perth WA but nothing to shoot , I’ve been up north 1000 miles , probably 3000 to find water buff. See Marraki , best borrow one up north as you have to get a separate permit for each state. My pall Stan in Florida I helped him get one , got a load of ammo and went shooting just like that. It’s so unfair

Sorry I am miserable and a winging Pom but what do you expect

But I have a .410 double to cuddle in bed

Go on don’t listen to others just buy one , you know it makes sense. However for a single barrel flint or percussion
I thing I prefer a .500 , got some of them too

 

[BigAl52]

For you 40 caliber lovers like me, Im thinking of getting a drop in barrel made for my Lyman GPR. Susie at Muzzleloaders Emporium has just spoke with me and they are a year out on making barrels. But I know they do good work. If this was you would you stay with the 32 inch barrel or go with a 30 inch barrel to help with some weight difference. I realize there probably isnt that much but lighter is better for older guys. Any other comments you might have are appreciated. In case you are wonder 1 in 48 is my twist choice also.

 

[Ninering62]

For you 40 caliber lovers like me, Im thinking of getting a drop in barrel made for my Lyman GPR. Susie at Muzzleloaders Emporium has just spoke with me and they are a year out on making barrels. But I know they do good work. If this was you would you stay with the 32 inch barrel or go with a 30 inch barrel to help with some weight difference. I realize there probably isnt that much but lighter is better for older guys. Any other comments you might have are appreciated. In case you are wonder 1 in 48 is my twist choice also.

I actually like the GPR, cool that you are wanting to put a .40 on it. Why not use a RICE barrel or GM barrel to have put on it? Why the slow twist 1:48 - in a .40? What type of projectile do you plan on using - PRB's? Get a 1:37 twist & shoot 180-200gr jacketed 10mm bullets.