Excessive pressure

[coloradoclyde]

:rotf: .....

Seriously though.....

 

[FishDFly]

Neither of them design bullets which blow pisols apart do they? :idunno:

 

[fleener]

Are you sizing your bullets after you wrap them?

How tight are your bullets when you load them?

Fleener

 

[rodwha]

Couldn't tell you. But when you use a boolit designed for something strong such as the ROA and decide on your own to try it in a repro not made to withstand higher pressures and figure a max load of 52 grns of Pyrodex P seems a good idea all bets are off now aren't they?

 

[cannonball1]

Idahoron has helped me a lot.
It is a swagged PP bullet from buffalo arms, but I do not size them. Remember I am getting good groups with the butcher single wrap square cut paper. The bullet does not fall down the barrel, but if you put the gun vertically and tapped the butt the bullet would slip down the barrel. I am cleaning between every shot. I need more information how to get the double wrap paper patches to group and was hoping someone out there could have a possible solution - any positive solution is appreciated.

 

[cannonball1]

Fleener, please read my last response.

 

[fleener]

try using a card wad and then a lubed wool wad on top of it.

My groups on my Rigby went from 2.5" - 3" at 100 yards to sub MOA when I went with that simple combination.

Fleener

 

[Idaho Ron]

I am using a veg. fiber wad. The last time I shot this 400 grain bullet it gave me a 1" - 5 shot - 100 yard group with the 90 grains of BP and with the Malcolm 32" scope. For one that is use to 1 in 60" twist. 1 in 24" is fast. I am now using butcher wrapping paper for the paper patch. The Greenhill Ballistic formula suggests a 380 grain for this particular 45 cal. I might try some of them. Right now I have decreased my pre-measured charges to 80 grains. That should be a safe charge?? I would like to shoot to 400-500 yards with some sort of a group.

For all the guys wondering where I am. I have been sitting this one out. I helped him to get to here. He has a load that is shooting 1" for 5 shots at 100 yards. To be honest for a hunting rifle sub 2" groups are good enough. A 5 shot 1" is knocking it out of the park. With 400 gr bullet at 80 grains of powder the load is no where near worrisome for pressure. Again I would not have recommended the load he is using unless I thought it would be fine.
I have been working with him for quite a while. I am assuming that he is looking for more info. I am out of info after I helped him get to 1" groups.

 

[BrownBear]

I know a lot of guys with modern bolt cartridge guns and scopes who claim better than an inch, but never quite seem to manage it when you're a witness. I'd say he's doing mighty fine.

Just for reference, TC themselves list a 100 grain 2f max with 320 grain lead bullets. Never tested pressures myself, but I wouldn't be uncomfortable with 80 grains and the heavier bullets.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Wher's Idaho Ron?....We need his input on this topic.

I have been working with him a lot on this on another forum.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I know a lot of guys with modern bolt cartridge guns and scopes who claim better than an inch, but never quite seem to manage it when you're a witness. I'd say he's doing mighty fine.

Just for reference, TC themselves list a 100 grain 2f max with 320 grain lead bullets. Never tested pressures myself, but I wouldn't be uncomfortable with 80 grains and the heavier bullets.

I can't blame him for looking for more info. I like info. But I am at a spot where I can't help him any farther. If he wanted to pour his own bullets and wanted to keep pushing for better accuracy, I would start hardening and testing the bullets.

 

[azmntman]

Idahoron has helped me a lot.
It is a swagged PP bullet from buffalo arms, but I do not size them. Remember I am getting good groups with the butcher single wrap square cut paper. The bullet does not fall down the barrel, but if you put the gun vertically and tapped the butt the bullet would slip down the barrel. I am cleaning between every shot. I need more information how to get the double wrap paper patches to group and was hoping someone out there could have a possible solution - any positive solution is appreciated.

Range work OK, DO NOT HUNT WITH IT. Unless you always remember to reseat that bullet before firing at that trophy bull. Be a shame to put so much work into a rifle load and bulge the barrel :shake:

 

[coloradoclyde]

Wher's Idaho Ron?....We need his input on this topic.

I have been working with him a lot on this on another forum.

Glad you're back Ron....I figured you were the man to talk to for this situation... :thumbsup:

 

[cannonball1]

Ron has done a lot and I thank him and also Roger Johnson has been very helpful with the butcher paper single wrap and other tips. I very much would like to know the secret, if there is any, of the double wrap onion skin paper. For some reason I cannot get a group with that patch. You long range target shooters, is there any light you would like to shed?

 

[necchi]

I have made a 1 in 24" twist barrel muzzleloader, 1" accross the flats, 45 Caliber. I am shooting paper patch bullets and want to shoot a 450 to 500 grain bullet with 90 grains of Goex black powder.

Will that create to much pressure??

No, Ron is right.
The rifle is a tool. You can--and do need to tune it and it's load combination to the best of it's ability.
But true and finest accuracy is only attained by the shooter himself.
Practice, if you want better groups. The rifle won't make the shooter better.

 

[necchi]

is there any light you would like to shed?

When you shoot, can you see your heart beat?

 

[necchi]

is there any light you would like to shed?

When you shoot, can you see your heart beat?

That's and honest non-sarcastic question

 

[cannonball1]

Come on guys.

I know my shooting abilities and they may not as good as some of you. Right now the gun is what I am trying to work out, so please.

I went to the range this morning. I knurled the bullet, shot 70 grains of powder, with the butcher paper and the first two shots were touching either other. The third was two inches away. The forth was four inches away. Then I shot 80 grains and they were all over the paper. I may be leaving some of the slick finish of the butcher paper behind. I have been shooting traditional ML since the early 70's, but the one thing I have learned is we can certainly inprove our situation by others input.

My question is regarding black powder, and not the substitutes. Years ago we use put pressure on the bullet and then flip the ramrod down the barrel until it bounced for a good seat. You old timers know what I am talking about. How much pressure are you using on the charged bullet? Do any of you bounce the ramrod? Remember we are talking only the real black powder.

I guess the next thing on the agenda is to try a .442 rather than the .441 bullet.

 

[JeffG]

If you had two shots touching, you are doing something right. Are you wiping between shots? I always do on the range. Fouling can change what happens with the shot. I want the gun to show me "cold bore" or first shot point of impact.

 

[cannonball1]

I am cleaning between shots. I just found an interesting article on BP shooting answering my own question. This writer compared loose, normal, compressed, and whanged on a patched round ball. The whanged(bouncing the ramrod) gave a 2" group at 50 yards while the normal(one pound of pressure) gave a 3 1/2" group at 50 yards. I was using the normal pressure. Also the whanged method kept his patches together better. His assumption was the patched ball was riding on un-burnt powder. The velocities were also greater on the whanged method.