Excessive pressure

[cannonball1]

Oh, and yes I know I can't whange the bullet because of the point, but I can put a lot of pressure on it.

 

[fleener]

1. The amount of pressure to put on the bullet is just enough to seat it. You dont want to upset the nose. You are not shooting a RB.

2. Do you weight your bullets? I try to find what the average bullet weights, then do plus or minus .5 grains from there.

3. You mention trying to shoot onion skin, but you use butcher paper. Are you doing your double wrap with onion skin?

4. I like sizing my bullets. I have 3 or 4 different sizing dies that I try on my bullets. I cast my bullets from the best molds that I can have made for me. My bullets are not exactly all the same size when I get done casting and wrapping them. A slightly tighter bullet will shoot higher.

5. Do you weight your powder to within 1/10th of a grain?

6. I only shoot swiss 2F in a rifle like this.

6. play with the wads. Try no card, card/wool felt comb. Also try a poly card. Poly cards have worked very well in my rifles, however I quit using them since they can not be used in the world matches.

7. I tried 5 or 6 different papers before I found one that worked really well. People have quite a bit of success with the paper that Buffalo Arms sells. Dave Gullo is the owner, one heck of a good long range shooter and a friend of mine. If he sells it there is a good chance that he uses or would use it.

8. Use a platinum lined nipple, if you dont have one, change out your nipple fairly often. Check the flash hole for erosion.

9. Might try a grease groove bullet. I have rifles that do not like the GG bullet, and rifles that like the PP bullets better. I have both and shoot both. It is up to the rifle.

10. I use a fairly damp patch, with a little scrubbing at the bottom, followed by a dry patch. I have for years snapped a cap after cleaning between shots. I am experimenting with not snapping a cap each time and using a brush wrapped with my cleaning patches instead of a jag.

11. Play with how much tin is in the bullets. One rifle I use 1 pound of tin to 16 pounds of lead, different rifle I use 1 in 25.

Those are the things that I would do if I was trying to wring more accuracy out of that barrel. Time and money is all it is.

1" group at 100 yards is certainly not bad, and it just might be as good as the barrel can shoot and perhaps you as well.

Fleener

 

[rodwha]

Might want to buy a pound of Goex Olde Eynsford to try as it was designed to compete with Swiss and from the few posts I've read where it was tried by Swiss shooters they were impressed and switched, especially with it being cheaper and being an American product.

I've not used Swiss but I have used Triple 7 and it compares favorably. Now I buy mostly OE as it is cheaper and I like the smoke.

 

[cannonball1]

Fleener, I really appreciate all of that information. I am in the point in my life I would rather make guns than spend the time casting bullets. I have been purchasing my bullets and onion skin paper from Buffalo bullets and yes I have been double wrapping the OS. I am going to try the lubricated wool wads you suggested and weigh the bullets. Is the Ox-Yoke wads good enough? I've now got enough direction for lots of trial and error. I am going to put a lot of pressure on the BP load with the wad before seating the bullet though. The last time shooting I did pressure one shot of the powder more and it did change where the bullet hit, and what I have been reading on different articles it does make a difference, at least, on round balls.

 

[fleener]

ox yoke will work just fine. That is what I use I think.

fleener

 

[fleener]

do you lube your PP bullets?

for what it is worth, I do not.

Fleener

 

[Zonie]

I do lube my paper patched bullets but only right before I load them.

I'm using a double wrapped very thin dress pattern paper and, although it does an excellent job of shrinking onto the bullet as it drys, it doesn't like to be lubricated for long periods of time before it's loaded.

The time I tried lubing the paper a day ahead of the time it was loaded, the paper lost all of its strength and tore badly.

Because of this, right before loading one, I will place it on a lube consisting of 50% bees wax and 50% Vaseline and rotate it so it is lightly covered with lube.
This works very well for me.

 

[fleener]

Jim

do you see any accuracy changes with the amount of lube?

ever try shooting it with out lube?

Fleener

 

[Idaho Ron]

I am not him but I had a friend that was using my paper patched Lee 500 S&W bullets in a blued steel gun. The bore was not as smooth as my stainless gun so I used chap stick for lube right as I was about to push the bullet into the barrel. It worked very well.

 

[cannonball1]

Fleener, I do not use any lube. May have to try it. By the way I do measure the powder with a scale. One thing I am going to try which was suggested to me is a very small amount of elmers glue in a water solution to dampen the double wrap onion skin, when dry twist the end and cut most of the back off, and slit the paper patch 3/4 the way down. It makes a good solid pp and hopefully the slit with help it shed. If anyone has used this method, would love a comment.

 

[fleener]

are you shooting this rifle for fun, hunting, targets?

Fleener

 

[cannonball1]

I made the gun sort of fancy with carvings, wire inletting and engravings. I also put a 32" malcolm scope on it. The gun weights 11 lbs and the scope 1.8 lbs. So to answer your question, it is not my hunting gun. This gun is for target shooting. I am not a match shooter, but would like to see how good I can get to 500 yards. That being said, it might find itself in the truck should a large mule deer find a road I might be traveling. This one is my fun gun and it might take some time, but I am going to find that optimum combination. Again I express my appreciation for your input. That goes for everyone.

 

[fleener]

some pictures would be good.

Fleener

 

[Zonie]

Jim

do you see any accuracy changes with the amount of lube?

ever try shooting it with out lube?

Fleener

I haven't tried varying the amount of lube.

Bear in mind, the bullets I'm using are designed specifically for paper patching and they don't have lube grooves.

I always lube my PP bullets just before shooting them.
I don't see any benefit to skipping that operation as I don't shoot competitively so loading isn't a race. I just take my own sweet time and shoot against myself.

 

[cannonball1]

Would, but can't figure out how to send photos.

 

[cannonball1]

 

[necchi]

nope.

 

[smo]

Strike one! Hang in there you'll get it . :thumbsup:

Can't wait to see the rifle , I would love to be able to shoot a 1" group at 100 yards. That's impressive ... :hatsoff:

 

[cannonball1]

I went out an shot yesterday using the wool patch over the card patch and the onion skin double wrap stuck with a little Elmers glue solution with a slit. I used 70 grain of powder. I got a four inch group.
The only times I can get a 1" group is with 90 grains of powder with the single wrap butcher paper. I have two problems with that. The first being the excessive pressure of the 400 grain bullets pushed by 90 grains of powder. The second is the butcher paper is leaving a heavy plastic residue and require a real lot of cleaning after each shot. The first two times I went out was early in the morning when everything was cool and the slick side of the paper didn't melt. This is the only thing I can think of. At least I didn't notice the build up of the plastic at that time.

How do I add URL to the image of my photos?

 

[fleener]

I dry wrap my PP with onion skin and it is a double wrap. No lube, no glue, no water. I also do not silt the paper. The paper is shredded by the rifling and it looks like confetti falling out of the sky after I shoot.

Sizing the bullet helps my paper have a really good fit to the bullet.

While there could be a long range ML shooter that adds a little glue to their paper and also slits it, I do not know of any.

there are different kinds of wads that you can use. The poly wads do work very well for me.
https://www.buffaloarms.com/reloading-supplies/wads/poly-wads



Fleener