Extreme Fouling

[James Brenner]

A friend of mine asked me to clean his Navy Arms (Japanese) Charleville for him. He bought it used a few years ago, fires only blanks out of it, and doesn't take good care of it. Here's the issue: about halfway down the bore there's some sort of constriction. I'm not sure what it is exactly, but I suspect it's powder residue that has hardened to a concrete-like ring. I can get wipers and slotted jags all the way down the barrel to the breech, but a pump and scraper get hung up. I don't want to force anything down the bore to dislodge the obstruction -although beating on it with a large mallet has a certain attraction. I will pull the breech plug as a last resort, but I want to try the easy way first. Right now, I'm letting the bore soak in a solution of hydrogen peroxide, rubbing alcohol, and oil soap. It's been soaking for a day, but I can't tell if it's working or not. I'm very open to suggestions on what to do next. Thanks.

 

[rabjr]

I'd let it soak too. If thats a powder residue ring it will dissolve. If it doesn't, you've got other problems.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Is it one of them non shooters for re enactment only? !

Brits.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I would agree that soaking is the answer but I do question that concoction you are using. The peroxide in particular is corrosive, I would definitely not want to leave that standing in the bore for very long. Nothing dissolves powder fouling better than plain water. We can call it H2O if that makes it seem more scientific but the witches brew of chemicals and household cleaners people persist in coming up with just can't do anything better than water and probably not as well. Fill the bore with water, hot, cold, or tepid makes no difference. Let it set for an hour or so, pour out and if indeed the obstruction is powder fouling you will find it reduced to a greasy black gunk. If not then I would assume the obstruction is something else entirely, god knows what. :haha:

 

[James Brenner]

Thanks for the replies. I was concerned about the peroxide, too, but water seems to have had no effect on it. That's why I thought I'd try something a little more potent. I'm not in any rush, so maybe I ought to let it soak for - oh, I don't know - a year or so and see what happens.

Im answer to the question about it being a shooter, I think Navy Arms originally sold them as shooters, but I don't think it's a wise idea to shoot anything out of it now(particularly RB) until the bore is cleared.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Soak it in soap and water for a day. Let the Soap work! Most of are too impatient in cleaning our guns to let the soap work in the bore. With heavily crusted bores, from years of neglect, the carbon build up as you have described. It may take several days for the soap and water to dissolve the crud, but IT will DO it. Just take your time.

A Bore brush, starting with a small diameter than the bore- will help knock off chunks of the crud, and widen that constriction until you CAN get a bore sized bore brush down the barrel, to work on the grooves. I have .22,.25, .30, .35,.45, .50, .62, and .72 caliber bore brushes to handle most of the guns I own. I am missing .40, .54,& .58 caliber bore brushes because I only recently acquired a .40 cal. gun. I would not hesitate to use my .22 bore brush FIRST on that constriction to see what I can knock loose! Then, I would work my way up to the bore diameter. But, let the soap and water do its job, first.

Oh, This might be one time when I recommend using Boiling Water- not to dissolve the carbon cake, but because it will cause the barrel to expand at a faster rate than the carbon, helping to break the bond between the carbon and the steel, and let the water and soap dissolve the carbon from the metal outward( inward?)to the existing constricted bore. :thumbsup:

 

[poordevil]

If room temp. water does not seem to do much, then try hot water and a wire bore brush. A 16 ga brush or 20ga at first then on to a 12ga.

 

[charcloth]

I spent 13 yrs in the army. One thing that amazed me from early on was the use of Barbasol shaving cream on the carbon fouling in the .50's. It works great but after seeing it I vowed never to put any on my face again. Don't know exactly why it works but it does.

 

[Ketchakah]

Osayo,
It works because it is Soap. :wink:

 

[paulvallandigham]

YEP! :thumbsup:

 

[SR James]

Paul is right about it taking a long time. I recently cleaned up a 3 band Enfield that had been shot and not cleaned. Just getting the caked on fouling cleaned off the breech area required soaking for most of a day. I'd soak it for two or three hours, then scrape the fouling with a wooden scraper only to find more dry fouling underneath. I would imagine a dry, heavily fouled bore would require a pretty darn good soak.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

Based on the chemical analyses of powder fouling that the Mad Monk and others have reported, it is likely the hard fouling is mostly fused potassium carbonate. This is what forms the hard fouling from heavy loads, especially in rapid fire and/or low humidity. The best solvent for it is usually reported to be plain vinegar. As you are probably doing already, plug the touch hole, stand it up, and let it soak - but don't fill it all the way as this may get rather effervescent.

Regards,
Joel

 

[Dphar]

I would not leave vinegar in the bore long.
Corrosive. But then the bore it not all that important anyway I guess.

Dan

 

[firefoot]

I agree! Hydrgen peroxide, and vinegar are corrosive. Corrosives do break down fouling, but they also eat away at the metal! Acids and corrosives are BAD! Soap and water are good. Slow down and clean SMART, not fast. Soap, water, rinse, dry, and oil.

 

[oldfart1956]

Fellers something else that helps (along with just water) is a Tornado Bore Brush. Don't know if they even still make these but they look a lot different than a regular bore brush. They're stainless steel wire kind'a wound in spirals. I've used em to scrape out nasty fouling and even plastic residue from using modern wads. Get the biggest one that'll fit in the bore and use a good quality rod!! Don't use a cheap alunium rod or it'll rip the threads out of the rod on the return. Audie..the Oldfart..

 

[Joel/Calgary]

I would not leave vinegar in the bore long.
Corrosive.

So is water in conjunction with oxygen. Just as with cleaning with water and the use of chemical rust remover (acid), knowledge and judicious use are required.

Regards,
Joel

 

[J.D.]

I gotta ask if the slow and arduous cleaning is worth the end result? IMHO, if the bore has not been cleaned to the extent that it is full of hard fouling, the bore is not an issue. IMHO, the bore is already ruined by the owner.

I would clean it as quickly and conveniently as possible. Chances are the idiot that owns this piece will repeat his behavior of shooting and not cleaning, so the whole process will need to be repeated when the bore is, once again, in this horrible condition.

God bless

 

[James Brenner]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I've opted to dump out the alcohol/peroxide/soap mixture and have switched to boiling water and soap. The heat seems to be as effective as anything. Still, it's a slow process. I'm using various sized bore brushes to help remove the fouling. All I can say is that it's a good thing that the Indians/French/British/Loyalists/Yankees/Spanish aren't circling the cabin because this is going to take a while.

Is all this effort worth it? Yeah, I think so. He's a good friend and it's the right thing to do.

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

I would not shoot even a blank in it until the ring is gone!
Check the outside of the barrel carefully and make sure there is no pressure ring on the outside oppisite the ring in the inside. It could be very small and hard to see.

 

[paulvallandigham]

This gun began life as a SMOOTHBORE. I expect he will find pitting, but that can be polished out with honing stones sold at auto supply stores to polish cylinders in car engines. Depending on how deep the pits are, this gun may be able to shoot well yet. It all depends on what that steel looks like when he gets all of the crud out.

I do think if this were a rifle with that much caked residue, it probably would NOT be worth the work needed to get it clean.

There may even be enough metal on the barrel to allow it to be bored to a larger caliber, without compromising safety. :hmm: :thumbsup: