F and I carbines

[FlinterNick]

My understanding is that many carbines were designed for mounted troops and had a special arrangement instead of a side plate to attach to a belt. They were not just short guns. As such, rifling a gun to be fired from horseback might be to no advantage.

I think the battle of Bennington VT is a great example of how carbines and rifled weapons can be at a major disadvantage as a good bulk of the forces advancing on Bennington were dismounted dragoons, in search of horses and supplies. Many of these dismounted dragoons were armed with lighter weapons, carbines, fusils and rifles and were overwhelmed by the militia and continentals under Stark and Warner. ive always felt that Burgyone’s refusal to halt his advance in the wake of the Bennington defeat was what cost him the battle of Sarratoga.

 

[Rudyard]

Are you possibly related to Feltwad? Sir, I for one would say your the one that comes off as feeling "self Important", that's why I ask, a definite pattern here.

I would think to have one or two rifled would have been VERY expensive and if they were not available that way from the seller it would have been a wealthy man that had one. Not my area of interest really (weird though, the Pilgrims and Plymouth Rock/Jamestown etc. fascinate me.)

So you want to insult me & ' Felt Wad ' Who I have known for many years though we are not related . I havn't been on these forums that long but I seem to get a favorable portion of' likes to' posts' . If you don't like that pattern may I suggest you keep trolling'.
Rudyard

 

[Loyalist Dave]

My understanding is that many carbines were designed for mounted troops and had a special arrangement instead of a side plate to attach to a belt. They were not just short guns. As such, rifling a gun to be fired from horseback might be to no advantage.

SORRY I missed this earlier

YES here are some photos of a Dutch carbine-musket for mounted troops. This might be the pattern of the Maryland "carbines". The silly auction house doesn't tell us the bore size. The bar assembly allows the rider to wear a sort of single strap harness. This is a 1769 Dutch musket so a bit "advanced"..., note the front and rear sights, and the bayonet lug is under the barrel. Very "Bess Like" in other respects

LD

 

[cebusey]

These rifled carbines were rifled after their sale out of military service. A faster loading smoothbore was the order of the day, military organizations weren’t going to mess with a hard loading rifle when the combat was heavy. Until we get a Time Machine, we won’t know.

Maryland had a Regiment of rifleman (Rawlings Brigade) as far back as the AR and to some degree maybe further back. I am pretty sure they used private purchase arms and were responsible for General Frazier losing the number of his mess at the battle of Saratoga. I do not doubt that I will get a snide remark that the discussion is about the F & I - but some sort of experience prior to 1776 led the powers to be that there is an advantage to having a unit equipped with rifles. Rank and file were of course smoothbore and these were the dominant issued weapon used.

 

[Rudyard]

SORRY I missed this earlier

YES here are some photos of a Dutch carbine-musket for mounted troops. This might be the pattern of the Maryland "carbines". The silly auction house doesn't tell us the bore size. The bar assembly allows the rider to wear a sort of single strap harness. This is a 1769 Dutch musket so a bit "advanced"..., note the front and rear sights, and the bayonet lug is under the barrel. Very "Bess Like" in other respects

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LD

The general form of' rib ' follows the Wm 111 carbines illustrated in Blackmores classic work on British military firearms .Cock looks later, nice sleeper
.Rudyard