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ebiggs1

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I was at the bank Friday and happened to run into a couple guys I knew were muzzleloader hunters. Now, I know, they are in-line muzzleloaders but nevertheless I wanted to seize the opportunity to make some coverts to flintlock shooting. Plus I would have someone to shoot with. We did all the greetings stuff and got the conversation to hunting with muzzleloaders. I said did you guys ever try flintlocks for muzzleloader season? No, was the reply. One guy said, “I’ve never even touched a real flintlock.”
This is your lucky day as I have one of mine right outside in the truck, c’mon on out.
I got it out and handed it to them and they both thought it was beautiful.
They continued to look it over when one guy asked how you mount a scope on one of these things. I said we don’t, and, as a matter of fact some of the purists don’t even use adjustable sights. “Well how far can you shoot with out a scope?” he said. “My last deer was over 200 yards with my in-line.” I told them we usually don’t try shots much over 100 yards and we prefer less than a 100. He said, “Wow that sabot would gut a deer at much less than 100 yards.” I explained we usually just use patched round balls. He asked, “Just how many deer have you shot that way, not many I would suspect?” Well I haven’t shot any yet as I have just started using flintlocks. He told me I better hang that pretty gun on the wall and get a real muzzleloader.
Now this long story brings me to the real point of this, which is in-lines have no place in the muzzleloader-hunting season. They are muzzleloaders only in a loose since of the word. They actually give up little to a modern center fire-hunting rifle. I don’t care if anybody wants to use them but they should have to be used in the general firearms season. They probably saved the muzzle loading sport from near extinction but they violate the sprit of muzzle loading to say the least.
Plus I did not make a new convert, I just got mad.
 
Good for you,at least you tried. Some people want to shoot fish in a barrel. Don't let it ruin your day. The next time it MAY go the other way. :) Larry
 
Some people will tell you that those things have saved muzzleloading - I will tell you that they have ruined it.
They are the difference between today's world and the old world that so many of us admire. We admire the old world where a man hunted with a flintlock and a patched round ball and found the time to feed, clothe and shelter his family. Times were tough but those men were tougher.
Now it's common to take a scoped 250 yard rifle into the woods a few pyrodex pellets and shotgun primers and a saboted bullet, shoot a deer 200+ yards away and say it is muzzleloader hunting. It's only results that matter in today's world, no matter how they are achieved.
Those guns have saved nothing, just developed and evolved into a modern hunting rifle that bears no resemblance to a real muzzleloader except the end it is loaded from.
My home state says it has remained traditional by creating an earlier "muzzleloader" season in October when it's allowed to use those things but when I look at the traditional flintlock season, they have allowed fiber optic sights, then conicals, then saboted bullets and now peep sights into the traditional season that starts after Christmas, just in the last few years.
The same modern inventions that allow these babies into the snowless woods in October when it's warm are now starting to work their way into the traditional flintlock season. And now crossbows are legal in the archery season!
Where are we headed?
 
ebiggs said:
They probably saved the muzzle loading sport from near extinction but they violate the sprit of muzzle loading to say the least.

That is a matter of opinion. All I see it do is bring some slob hunters from the rifle season into the ML deer season & wound allot of deer by attempting to make 200-400 yard shots they missed in the HP rifle season. :shake:
 
It has nothing to do with the "spirit" of ML.

It is about the money:

More guns sold = more sales tax money

More ML season tags sold = More license revenue

More hunters in the woods = More money for local economy.

More hunters = Justify the budgets of state DNRs

More money, more money, more money !
 
Dont let it get you mad, just smile. when you do draw blood with your flintlock it will bring you more satisfaction than you can emagine.
Out of all the mounts i have on the wall, the little 4 point i took this past season is by far my biggest trophy, i would not trade it for the biggest buck in the woods, unless it was with a flinter :wink:
Take that pretty rifle down off the wall and give em hell, keep at it, if you can get one person to convert you have done great, two of my three sons kinda look down their noses at the old man and his old style guns, when they take a deer its just another kill, but when they hear the old man shoot they know somethig special has taken place.
maybe one day they will come around, there is a lot of hope for my youngest he just turned 18 and is showing a lot of intrest in putting down the modern and walking in the footsteps of history. :v
 
Just take them shooting. Shoot about 50 rounds each, all offhand. They'll sell themselves on traditional guns. And they'll be broke and out of ammo when you're still shooting. The ones I know are laying out $2-$3 every time they pull the trigger between the cost of sabots and pellets, and the guns just aren't easy to shoot offhand like a traditional.

Yeah, you're stacking the deck with all that offhand shooting, but they'll have fun and be a lot more interested in traditionals. It won't soil yer shorts to shoot their guns too, so don't be a snob about getting them to shoot yours. Think of it as a good cause, but genuine (or apperently genuine) interest in all things muzzleloading will do more to convert them than living up to the image of a traditional snob. Just have fun shooting with some folks you enjoy, and let them do their own sales job on traditional.
 
Two weeks ago I got my third deer with a flint lock rifle this year. I dragged it out to the nearest field and walked back to the truck to get rid of some excess weight. (rifle, folding stool, heavy coat) Two other fellows were also hunting the area, and were at their truck. They had only seen one deer that afternoon. (I shot the fifth one I saw.) They both had inline with scopes. One fellow said that "he couldn't get the range finder on the deer fast enough to get a shot at it." I just said my deer was about thirty yards, and I headed out to finish bringing it in.
The inline people have very little idea of how to hunt let alone what an ethical shot would be. They are a front loading high powered rifle, that want to be in a traditional season.
These flint rifles have been around for two hundred years, do you think they will be talking about some inline rifle in another two hundred years? Leon
 
Reminds me of a guy who came down to the farm a few years back. He had an inline scoped in at two hundred yds, and a mounted bypod. He failed to get five different deer focused in his scope at from 25 to fifty yds. But my iron sights worked just fine!
 
ohio ramrod said:
Reminds me of a guy who came down to the farm a few years back. He had an inline scoped in at two hundred yds, and a mounted bypod. He failed to get five different deer focused in his scope at from 25 to fifty yds. But my iron sights worked just fine!


:rotf: Oh my!
 
You probably won't get any converts just talking about it to them. You've got to get to the range and let them try. Even then, they may not even touch it. I've had a few guys just smile (with a little fear in their eyes) and say "No Thanks". You can't push the issue.

I like the idea of taking the opportunity to shoot their inlines when they offer. Heck, like someone said, they're shooting $3 a shot so don't be a snob and take them up on their offer and THEN shuffle them over to your flintlock. :grin:

I don't know what it is about our rifles that gets them. Nobody thinks twice about killing a deer with a flying razor blade on a stick, but mention supersonic lead orbs and flintlocks and it seems an impossible feat to the in-line guys. :idunno:
 
We may be winning this war. I have been told, but have not seen the current regulations, that Illinois has now banned the use of shotgun primers to ignite the charge of powder in MLing rifles.

If this drives those zip guns out of our woods, other states are sure to follow.

If they had banned scoped sights on Mling rifles, for instance, it would have hurt a lot of older hunters who now use scopes because of failing eyesight. So, banning shotgun primer Mlers was the easiest way to get the season back to using traditional side hammer Mlers.

Paul
 
I'd like to see them go back to flints and prb. Then everyone would stop using the substitutes and the saboted bullets too.
 
When I see someone with an in-line, I give the same look they give for shooting a real BP rifle and ask, Why?

I have looked at the prices for those sabots, pellets and other NEW junk and can not afford that high priced stuff. I never stopped to calculate it, but $3 sounds about right. I shoot my .62 for around 20 cents a shot.

As far as 200 yard shots: it would be difficult to shoot that far here, with all the hills and trees.
 
Oh, one thing I forgot in the original “rant” was one fellow did say the only reason he got an in-line was so he could extend his hunting season. He said actually he didn’t care for all the mess that goes with (in-line) muzzle loading.
I really think that is the main reason most of those guys get in-lines.
But you know I used my flintlock in the general firearms season here in Kansas. I guess everybody takes a different path.
 
ebiggs said:
,,, the only reason he got an in-line was so he could extend his hunting season. ,,,
I really think that is the main reason most of those guys get in-lines.

Nothing personal, but this is old news. :v
 
You guys don't understand the modern hunter, in their mind, just get the deer, they shudder at the thought of a 75 yard shot (maximum) round ball, with open sites. That is where the scope, sabots, modern powder comes in to play for that 200 yard shot off a bipod. I think a lot of these guys are just plain ignorant about a traditional gun, flint or perc.,and believe what so and so said about how slow a flintlock is or how innefective a patched round ball is. I think a lot of these guys are very competitive, the modern muzzleloader is going to give them a certain advantage over learning how to use a real muzzleloader. I have learned over the years to just avoid hunting conversations with these guys, they just don't get it. Subjects like this kinda strike a nerve with me, (as you can tell), I like all guns, well most all guns, maybe I have a problem with someone bragging how he shot a deer at 200 yards with a muzzleloader? I see very few of these guys at the range through out the summer, they are out golfing or whatever, and thats ok, most are interested in getting an extra tag in the fall and have no interest in what a real muzzleloader is, this is where the modern muzzleloader comes in, quick and easy. flinch
 
Paul, I wish they would make it, round ball only for muzzleloader season, let them have scopes, shotgun primers, whatever. WOW, then we would hear about how ineffective the round ball is, wounding and such. flinch
 
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