Failed attempt

[Little Wattsy]

Just take them shooting. Shoot about 50 rounds each, all offhand. They'll sell themselves on traditional guns. And they'll be broke and out of ammo when you're still shooting. The ones I know are laying out $2-$3 every time they pull the trigger between the cost of sabots and pellets, and the guns just aren't easy to shoot offhand like a traditional.

Yeah, you're stacking the deck with all that offhand shooting, but they'll have fun and be a lot more interested in traditionals. It won't soil yer shorts to shoot their guns too, so don't be a snob about getting them to shoot yours. Think of it as a good cause, but genuine (or apperently genuine) interest in all things muzzleloading will do more to convert them than living up to the image of a traditional snob. Just have fun shooting with some folks you enjoy, and let them do their own sales job on traditional.

Dam good advice!!! :hatsoff: :hatsoff:

 

[fyrfyter43]

Some people will tell you that those things have saved muzzleloading - I will tell you that they have ruined it.
They are the difference between today's world and the old world that so many of us admire. We admire the old world where a man hunted with a flintlock and a patched round ball and found the time to feed, clothe and shelter his family. Times were tough but those men were tougher.
Now it's common to take a scoped 250 yard rifle into the woods a few pyrodex pellets and shotgun primers and a saboted bullet, shoot a deer 200+ yards away and say it is muzzleloader hunting. It's only results that matter in today's world, no matter how they are achieved.
Those guns have saved nothing, just developed and evolved into a modern hunting rifle that bears no resemblance to a real muzzleloader except the end it is loaded from.
My home state says it has remained traditional by creating an earlier "muzzleloader" season in October when it's allowed to use those things but when I look at the traditional flintlock season, they have allowed fiber optic sights, then conicals, then saboted bullets and now peep sights into the traditional season that starts after Christmas, just in the last few years.
The same modern inventions that allow these babies into the snowless woods in October when it's warm are now starting to work their way into the traditional flintlock season. And now crossbows are legal in the archery season!
Where are we headed?

:hatsoff: Well said!

 

[D Sanders]

We have thew same problem in the mid-west. Thing is they're making the methods easier because our deer herd is getting larger. They ( the conservation dpt.) don't care about tradition, they only want to thin down the herd. To me, the in-line did for muzzle loaders what the compound bow did for archery, they made things easier. There just aren't that many traditionalist out there to bring up the number of hunters in the woods. I always did say, only the strong traditionalists would be left standing and the progressive hunter/ shooter would fall if you eliminated all those fancy scopes, sabots and in-lines. I know this post doesn't solve any of this but these are the cold hard facts.

Hawken Hunter 60

 

[Trench]

We have thew same problem in the mid-west. Thing is they're making the methods easier because our deer herd is getting larger. They ( the conservation dpt.) don't care about tradition, they only want to thin down the herd. To me, the in-line did for muzzle loaders what the compound bow did for archery, they made things easier. There just aren't that many traditionalist out there to bring up the number of hunters in the woods. I always did say, only the strong traditionalists would be left standing and the progressive hunter/ shooter would fall if you eliminated all those fancy scopes, sabots and in-lines. I know this post doesn't solve any of this but these are the cold hard facts.

Hawken Hunter 60

This is a good point. The hunting population is already down some 20% from 20 years ago in Indiana. I wonder what would happen if you took away all the "easy" means of harvesting deer now. It might spell doom for the rest of us. Something to think about.

 

[ebiggs1]

I agree with both you and Hawken Hunter. That is why I said in-lines helped save muzzleloader deer season. There just aren’t enough of us. I passed up two shots I could have taken but thought they were just out of my range. How many in-line shooter do that, not many I suspect if their goal is just to extend their season.

 

[sbhg]

"They are muzzleloaders only in a loose since of the word"
"they violate the sprit of muzzle loading to say the least"
This and some others i'm sure were said to the first guys that showed up to a shoot w/ the first cap locks. There are no doubt some guys that have gone from inlines to caps or flints, its just evolution.
BTW I don't want to sound like i'm picking on anyone. :grin:

 

[Jason Lewis]

most inline guys just want to extend their hunting seasons, they usually don't have alot of cash to expend on a new traditional gun even though they think they are decidedly more attractive. plus all they ever see on the hunting shows are guys with inlines, who almost always seem to get the big buck with ease. after all inlines are easier to load and clean plus since most of the guys only shoot before deer season the addition of a scope means they don't have to practice as much. all of that is of course crap. just this weekend we were down at my parents house in central IL, as usual my dad and i were watching hunting shows. on this particular episode a group of guys came to iowa from mississipi to hunt the big midwestern buck. we were both laughing at one particular hunter with his new CVA inline, missing after 3 shots at one buck who couldn't figure out where the shot was coming from. the deer was literaly just standing in the field. you could actually see the snow kick up behind and below the deer. the shot was too far. 200yrds away and the guy misjudged the distance. HP rifle, no way at all, in fact they only hit about as hard as a .62 ball at 50yrds. the trajectory is about the same too, with a 100 yrd sight setting they are about 2 feet low at 200yrds. too bad he didn't practice shooting or else he would know his guns trajectory. still it was funny though, but also representative of the crap advertising that hunters beleive

not all inline guys are like the one's mentioned, i know a few traditional guys who use inlines in the field just because they don't want to scratch thier nice target everyday guns up. i understand that, beat the cheap gun, enjoy the nice gun.

but what do i know, i'm just a bp guy, i'm stuck in the 19th and 18th century with my tastes anyway. :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

With fewer hunters, States would have to increase the bag limits on game, extend seasons to give us more opportunities to hunt, and relax some of the idiotic game laws they now impose- all for the purpose of giving more people the Opportunity to hunt. Here in Illinois, Archery permits for deer can be used anywhere in the state, but firearm permits are restricted to one county. I'd like to see that end, as well as the April Lottery for the permits, with notice being given only in Mid-July as to whether you have won a permit or not. With computers available to record all sales, there is no reason why we should not be able to buy deer permits over the counter, and, after a certain date, buy extra permits that are available, or have a system where when you report a kill and your tag, you have the opportunity to purchase another permit.

Right now, there are simply too many regulations that serve all kinds of interests other than helping hunters find success in the fields. And the Conservation Police officers are way to interested in citing hunters for every minor infraction in order to collect more revenue. Each year, over the past 15 years or so, I have heard increasing numbers of hunters packing it in, and refusing to hunt deer in Illinois anymore. Some go out of state; others simply retire. That is how you have seen the number of hunters drop so dramatically in all the states. The dept. here is Not doing enough to make ranges available to the public, for practice, and teaching, so there is no means to enter this sport, unless you live in a rural area. Most of the population lives North of I-80 across N. Illinois, and most now live in urban centers in and around Chicago, where law abiding citizens cannot legally own guns. Surprise, that we have seen a drop in licenses sold in Illinois. Gee, I wonder why????? :idunno: :hmm:

 

[larry wv]

Even with the inline garbage people are too lazy to hunt around here. The older guys are getting older and the new breed are not intrested. The DNR has to make it easier all the time so they can sell licenses. :barf: Larry

 

[sundog]

Boy I am happy I live in PA where we have a real traditional Flintlock season as well as a "muzzle loader" season.
As others have meantioned the xxline guys spent far more per shot than I do. I am entertained by watching them at the range BOOM=$3 so they don't shoot much and oh my goodness when they try to sight in a new scope and have to go to a second box of sabots they are not happy at all.

 

[nkbj]

We have thew same problem in the mid-west. Thing is they're making the methods easier because our deer herd is getting larger. They ( the conservation dpt.) don't care about tradition, they only want to thin down the herd. To me, the in-line did for muzzle loaders what the compound bow did for archery, they made things easier. There just aren't that many traditionalist out there to bring up the number of hunters in the woods. I always did say, only the strong traditionalists would be left standing and the progressive hunter/ shooter would fall if you eliminated all those fancy scopes, sabots and in-lines. I know this post doesn't solve any of this but these are the cold hard facts.

Hawken Hunter 60

That's hitting the nail on the head. Bet it's great having a job where you're supposed to create the problems you force others to pay for.

 

[D Sanders]

Right now, there are simply too many regulations that serve all kinds of interests other than helping hunters find success in the fields. And the Conservation Police officers are way to interested in citing hunters for every minor infraction in order to collect more revenue.

I agree with Paul, There are just too many rules that can be easily overlooked and a lot of guys wont hunt for the fear of getting in trouble for some stupid little infraction. Especially if they have to hunt on public land.

Hawken Hunter 60

 

[ravenousfishing]

As much as many of us on this forum would like to see Muzzleloading Seasons open to traditional weapons only, bottom line is it isn't going to happen, and it may not be the best thing in the long run anyway. With the increased sissyfication of our country, I'm not sure that there are enough of us to sustain these seasons on our own. Even here on Maryland's Eastern Shore, where hunting is well entrenched and steeped in tradition, a smaller percentage of the population hunts than did in the past. Of all the guys that I know that hunt, only my brother and one other hunter use Traditional style guns, and the other guy uses a scope on his TC Hawken. I dont think we could justify additional hunting days for such a small segment of the community, especially with the increased pressure from tree huggers and the anti-gun crowd.
We all hunt for differnt reasons and can devote different amounts of time to that end. The choice of weapon does not necessarily mean one hunter is better than another, although certain types (ie bows and traditional muzzleloaders) do require you to hone your hunting skills more to be successful. While many don't hunt with traditional guns, they DO HUNT, they do spend time in the woods, and they DO PASS ON THEIR LOVE OF GUNS AND HUNTING TO OTHERS. This is the important part, not what type of gun they use. We cant force someone to see things from our perspective, but the more people involved in the sport, the more people will find their way to our little community on their own terms. This can only help us in the long run.

 

[BrownBear]

Up here there's a "philosophical" point behind the primitive weapon season which includes both archery and muzzleloading.

The point of the agency (ADF&G) is to provide more hunting opportunities by restricting the effective range of the arms. They draw no distinction between inline and traditional, but no telescopic sights are allowed. In fact, you have to take a class and shoot to qualify, and they use open-sighted inlines in the class.

But without the scopes, there's really no advantage at all to the inlines other than ready availability in local stores. I've found it surprisingly easy to interest many inline shooters in traditional guns as a result.

Seems to me that reasonable thing other states could fight for is the no scopes deal. That would pretty well take care of it I think. At least based on my experience as a barefoot missionary in the dark.

 

[Anonym]

I will eventually get around to Flintlocks, but I've been hunting for about 20 years with a caplock. That being said, about 8 years ago, I picked up a stainless Encore ML to hunt with, and it's a fine and danged accurate rifle.

I enjoy hunting because of the challenge, so over the past year or so, I've been evolving back into a caplock shooter and am enjoying hunting more than ever. I still have my Encore, but I've stripped the scope off of it and have it designated as my "foul weather" rifle, so I can still hunt in the worst weather. Only reason why I have saboted bullets still in the house is because the twist rate on it is too fast to accurately shoot PRB.

I am an advocate for separating inlines and smokeless out of muzzleloader season completely, but not at the expense of loosing a muzzleloader season. It takes a certain mentality to "get" what hunting with a muzzleloader is all about, and combining the growing herd fact with the fact that most inline shooters are just looking for a few extra weeks to bag a trophy, a lot of that has been lost.

Same way with archery. I love hunting with a bow and arrow, but I'm a "young" archer and haven't managed to evolve into hunting with my recurve yet, so the compound is what I take to the woods. Should I be banned from archery season because my bow has cams? I hope not, but if there was a special time designated strictly for traditional equipment, it just might inspire me to take my recurve more seriously. But it takes a special breed to hunt with a bow or a muzzleloader only, even during firearm season.

It's a delicate balance in which we have little say and those who do, have little at stake. I wish it was otherwise, but until then, I'll keep doing what I know is right and hope the "others" don't ruin it for me in the mean time.

Anonym

 

[pchwcf50110]

But without the scopes, there's really no advantage at all to the inlines other than ready availability in local stores.

i agree totally BrownBear. whenever i hear this arguement about inlines vs. traditional my answer is the same to both camps. if you honestly believe that an inline is superior to a traditional rifle you are mistaken.

 

[ebiggs1]

In my original post I said I wasn’t against in-lines. I do not care what another person wants to use as his/her weapon of choice. No one stood over my shoulder and made me buy a flintlock, so I ain’t gonna either.
But that said, I still don’t think they belong in muzzleloader deer season. They share way more in common with modern center fire guns than they do with real muzzleloaders.

 

[larry wv]

Doing away with scopes is a good idea. Anonym if you are thinking of hunting with a recurve do it early in life. If you wait to long your elbows ect will keep you from practiceing enough to keep good. Larry

 

[John Wasmuth]

I agree with you. Inlines are great if you like center fire rifles and should be allowed during the general rifle season. I am however, against the use of them during a "primative season" due to the fact that the only thing primative about them is the fact that there is no brass casing.
Nothing different about them than a .45/70. which aint primative by any means at all.

 

[MDK_WV]

I live and hunt in WV which has an ample deer population. I hunt with my caplock and flintlock anytime there is a firearm season for deer and turkey. It doesn't matter if it is buck season, antlerless season or "muzzleloader season." I don't have a quarrel with the firearms of choice for other hunters and I don't expect them to quarrel with me about my choice. I was able to hunt for over five weeks this year with my traditional muzzleloader wihich was a week more than those who carried centerfire rifles. In my opinion this makes my choice of firearm a better choice.

"Opinions are just like elbows, most people have one or two"