Fast Twist Flint Lock?

[Medicine_man]

Greetings,

This is my first post. I am here to learn and hope I have posted in the right spot. Does anyone know a gunsmith that makes flintlock muzzleloaders that have a fast twist? I am defining fast twist as something in the neighborhood of 1 in 20. I am seeking to shoot patched heavy for caliber full bore bullets from a custom mold. I have plenty of experience with paper patching and do this with some modern rifles.

I am not seeking a modern muzzleloader. I find the flintlock mechanism fascinating and old flintlocks beautiful.

Thank you for your advice!

 

[French Colonial]

Pedersoli's Jager flintlock Hunter is advertised as having a 1:24 twist

 

[MDHunter]

Pedersoli makes the Lyman Plains Hunter version in a flintlock 1x24 twist.

 

[M. De Land]

Greetings,

This is my first post. I am here to learn and hope I have posted in the right spot. Does anyone know a gunsmith that makes flintlock muzzleloaders that have a fast twist? I am defining fast twist as something in the neighborhood of 1 in 20. I am seeking to shoot patched heavy for caliber full bore bullets from a custom mold. I have plenty of experience with paper patching and do this with some modern rifles.

I am not seeking a modern muzzleloader. I find the flintlock mechanism fascinating and old flintlocks beautiful.

Thank you for your advice!

I do not think flint locks are a good match for conical ball shooting because the pressure for shooting conicals is quite a bit higher than is round ball shooting. The higher breech pressure would erode flash holes just as fast and probably faster than it does nipples on percussion long range rifles shooting heavy conicals.

 

[Zonie]

I agree with M. De Land.

Typically, the flash hole thru a percussion guns nipple is about .028" diameter. Most would agree that the minimum vent hole size for a flintlock is about 1/16 (.062") in diameter. Without going thru what I did to get the numbers, that 1/16" hole has almost 5 times the open area (4.9 ) of the percussion nipple thru hole.

Elongated bullets also raise the breech pressure considerably over the breech pressures seen when shooting patched roundballs. Lyman's BLACK POWDER HANDBOOK shows the breech pressure for percussion fired guns. A cloth patched .440 diameter roundball over a 70 grain, 2Fg powder load created a breech pressure of 11,000 psi. A 70 grain, 2Fg powder load in the same barrel, under a 285 grain lead bullet created a breech pressure of 19,100 psi.

I have no doubt that the side blast of flaming gas out of the vent would increase dramatically if a heavier bullet was used.

The larger area of the vent hole and greater gas loss thru the vent hole can be offset by increasing the powder charge but I think the amount of variation due to all of the above, would lead to inconsistency in accuracy with the heavy bullet.
Perhaps it's time to step back in time and go from using paper patches to using cloth patched round lead balls?

 

[The Crisco Kid]

Unless you're hunting grizzlies or elephants a round ball will kill plenty good enough.

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Huh. I wonder what the people who have bought the Pedersoli fast twist flinters have experienced.

I can't say I see a lot of them coming on these forums with accuracy woes.

 

[dave61965]

Good video on the accuracy of the flintlock at long range, he mentions he normally shoot the Lee Real bullet but for the demonstration he uses round ball for historical reasons.

 

[user 48679]

My first Austin & Halleck rocklock Mountain Rifle had a conical 1:28" twist, and not the other PRB twist option (1:66") my 2nd one did.

 

[French Colonial]

In the video above the gentleman is shooting Pedersoli's target model Jaeger (they spell it Jager) which according to their web site is a 1:65 twist.
Their hunter model is the 1:24 twist which is the one with the uncheckered wrist, I would really like to play with one of the hunter models but I admit the 1:24 twist is kind of off putting.
And the target model has the rear aperture which, on this gun, I don't care for.

Not sure if I want to spend the money on the hunter model and find it doesn't shoot patched round balls as well as I would like.

Another Jaeger is never a bad thing though!

 

[R.J.Bruce]

Rice can make the fast twist .45, or .50 caliber barrel, in 4140CM steel, out to 41" long. 0.004 deep, square bottom grooves. Straight octagon, & tapered octagon up to 28" long for $375.00. Anything over 28" long is negotiable, depending upon the contour desired. Straight octagon, tapered octagon, swamped octagon, octagon-round. The more complicated, the more it's going to cost.

I asked Jason for an octagon-round, .45 caliber, 1:14" fast twist, 41" long, triple-taper, rifled, fowler-style barrel, and the quote was between $500.00-$600.00. This would be for shooting sub-300 grain lead conicals out to 200 yards. As well as .40 caliber lead conicals in a .45 caliber sabot.

With replaceable, 1/4"-28, AMPCO bronze touch hole liners, screwdriver slotted, or Allen wrench socketed; the issue of touch hole wear will be eliminated. I already have a set of pin gages that will allow me to check the wear in the touch hole liner accurately.

By choosing to shoot light lead conicals, touch hole wear should be reduced.

 

[M. De Land]

I believe some of the high grade guns of yesteryear platinum lined their flash hole vents to keep them from eroding. I wonder if one could get a jeweler to preform this operation on a liner or two?

 

[M. De Land]

Rice can make the fast twist .45, or .50 caliber barrel, in 4140CM steel, out to 41" long. 0.004 deep, square bottom grooves. Straight octagon, & tapered octagon up to 28" long for $375.00. Anything over 28" long is negotiable, depending upon the contour desired. Straight octagon, tapered octagon, swamped octagon, octagon-round. The more complicated, the more it's going to cost.

I asked Jason for an octagon-round, .45 caliber, 1:14" fast twist, 41" long, triple-taper, rifled, fowler-style barrel, and the quote was between $500.00-$600.00. This would be for shooting sub-300 grain lead conicals out to 200 yards. As well as .40 caliber lead conicals in a .45 caliber sabot.

With replaceable, 1/4"-28, AMPCO bronze touch hole liners, screwdriver slotted, or Allen wrench socketed; the issue of touch hole wear will be eliminated. I already have a set of pin gages that will allow me to check the wear in the touch hole liner accurately.

By choosing to shoot light lead conicals, touch hole wear should be reduced.

Yeah, that's good I see Rice has made a good call by going to 4140 steel for barrels that will be shooting conicals . It will take the added pressure and shock load much better than will 12L14 they use for their round ball barrels. Actually 12L14 is probably much stronger than was original soft iron and mild steel barrels seam welded from a scalp of flat iron. It is rated compared to modern alloy steel considered the industry standard for rifle barrels. 1114, 1034, 4140-50 ,416 stainless etc.

 

[Medicine_man]

Greetings,

Thank you all. I have some options and limitations to consider here. This has certainly helped. I appreciate everyone's advice and shared experiences.