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felt wad under patched ball?

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horsetrader

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I have heard that in the old times people put the fibre of bees nests and other fibre between the powder and the patched ball. Would it make sence to put a felt wad under the pached ball? and if so why?
 
Never tried it. I've always been able to solve "blow by" problems or patch shredding by using a thicker patch. Others that weren't so lucky have reported stuffing all sorts of things between PRB and powder to improve their lot. In a rifled bore though, I wouldn't substitute the overpowder thingy for a patch around the ball, so you can engage the rifling for a little spin while also avoiding leading. Might be just fine with a smoothie, though I have less experience there.
 
Is that not what they used as a patch? Reason it was difficult to get cotton material sometimes for patches so they used what they could out in the wilderness during a trek or hunt.
 
It makes good sense and I do it all the time. It tightens the groups on my rifles considerably.

HD
 
I would suspect that in the past the nestin was wadding to hold the ball in place and act as a buffer to hold the pressure some, today many people use something between the patched ball and powder, I have never found the need but I shoot moderate loads and don't try for a long flat trajectory, as I shoot up close due to the nature of the area.
 
Dawg: I mostly shoot 54 caliber. Does using a wad sort of push a lot of powder fouling down the bore- which makes ramming down a patched ball easier? In other words- do you get to reload more times before cleaning the bore? If so- I may get some wads.
 
When I was working up bear hunting loads I tried some felt wads (20 ga wads for a .54)under the patched ball and found it tightened up my groups noticeably with heavier powder charges. Haven't found them to be of any help with more moderate loads.
 
I haven't shot any muzzleloader, whether rifle or pistol, that didn't shoot a little more accurately with a wad under the ball. So it's still pretty common.
 
Great accuracy requires consistency in the loading of the gun, shot after shot. The wadding was used between the powder and the PRB to seal the gases of the burning powder behind the PRB, and to prevent the hot gases from burning holes through the patch material. Today, we have very well made( woven) patch material, and great lube. Fabrics were more than a bit " iffy 235 " years ago.

Today we have vegetable fiber wads, cork wads, and Felt wads, dry, or pre-lubed for you to buy. We can also use Hornet's nest material, or fillers made from natural materials like corn meal, cream of wheat, cat tail "tails"( The brown thing at the top of the stalk), and any number of man made products( synthetics) to perform the same function of protecting the patching( firewall) and sealing the gases behind the ball.

Doing these things allows for much more consistent velocity, shot after shot, and greater accuracy. Sometimes, a shooter can actually reduce the amount of powder he had been using in his rifle before using OP wads- there is so often that much of a change in the Muzzle Velocity achieved when OP wads or fillers are used. That means an expensive pound of powder will last a bit longer, and that is a savings of real money.

When I began using an OP wad under my PRB in my 20 gauge smoothbore, Velocity rose close to 250 fps at the muzzle, and the Standard Deviation of Velocity dropped in half! POI at 25 yards rose about 6 inches! I have since bought some thicker patch fabric to use in that barrel, but will continue to load an OP wad on top of the powder to act both as a firewall and a gas sealer. The thicker fabric will simply carry more lube to help lube the bore of my fowler.

So, give all these result your consideration when you decide whether to try OP wads or cards in your shotgun or rifle. Its more important to you that YOU find a good reason to load your gun this way, than anything we think about it.

When I was first shooting, I did a lot of casual target shooting( Minute of barn door) just to get used to firing a MLer. I was not looking for point accuracy. Later- and not much later- my club got me involved in doing shooting demonstrations in front of crowds at various gatherings. We marched in bi-centennial parades, and set up camps to help audiences better understand how people lived back then. The Shooting demonstrations started out pretty tame, but soon older people began asking us to make " trick shots", like cutting a ball on the edge of an axe blade, to break two clay targets leaning against the back end of the axe, with the one shot. Or, splitting a playing card on edge. And, later, snuffing candle stick flames out without touching the stick or the wick. We shot bottle caps, but found people could not seem from behind the firing line well. We shot eggs suspended on lines, but again, found that people could not see the targets, particular in sunlight. We shot clay targets resting on nails in boards, and then shot the centers out and fired at the edges after that. The Black dust mark on light colored plywood made it easier for the crowd to see what we were trying to shoot.

None of us wanted to miss in front of a crowd. So,. I began listening to what older shooters were telling me to do to get better accuracy. That is how I came to test OP wads, and fillers, of all descriptions. They work.

Now, If I am plinking targets at close range, and don't need to be able to hit within an inch of where I am aiming, I will still load simply a PRB, lubed with spit, in my gun and fire away. But, If you ask me to do a bit of " Shootin' ", to quote Alvin York, well- you will find me loading my gun a lot more carefully, and I may just have to wipe the dust off that front sight, just like Alvin did! :grin: :wink:
 
I use felt wads over the powder when hunting. Because I'm cheap, I use toilet paper wads (wasp nest when I can get it) for general shooting in all my rifles. An over powder wad protects the powder from the lube and protects the patch, though like many others, I find a good patch combo doesn't burn through, anyway. I've found that an over powder wad gives more consistent velocities but not necessarily higher velocities. It also does some minor bore wiping when seated but is probably not significant.
 
crockett said:
Dawg: I mostly shoot 54 caliber. Does using a wad sort of push a lot of powder fouling down the bore- which makes ramming down a patched ball easier? In other words- do you get to reload more times before cleaning the bore? If so- I may get some wads.

I shoot mostly .54 too. I don't find that it pushes fouling down the bore. I think it helps reduce fouling by allowing the powder a more complete burn due to the consistent pressure. Ease of loading shot after shot has a lot to do with the patch lube you use. I lube my wads with Bore Butter or my homemade olive oil/beeswax lube and I use either Stumpy's Moose Milk or Hoppes BP patch lube on my ticking patches. Those combination's make for easy loading shot after shot. I can shoot many shots before swabbing.

HD
 
horsetrader said:
I have heard that in the old times people put the fibre of bees nests and other fibre between the powder and the patched ball. Would it make sence to put a felt wad under the pached ball? and if so why?
Yes, with all my high power hunting loads to act as a firewall to protect the patch...not with target / plinking / small game loads.]

They also improve gas sealing resulting in a smaller, more consistent 'standard deviation' from shot to shot, which tightens up groups a little.
 
You guys have sold me on the use of wads- I at least am going to try them and see how they work.
 
I use a felt in my .50's and my revolvers over powder. it does tighten groups for me.
I've read here that some beleive the old timers used wasp nests to do the same thing and to patch smoothbores also both with ball and shot.
 
That's the best way to do anything related to muzzleloading. Try it to see if it works for you. The one thing I've learned about muzzleloading is that there isn't any "one right way" to do anything. There are many ways that work, and what works for one person doesn't always work for another. Finding the right combination takes a little trial and error, but it's worth it in the end.
 
horsetrader said:
I have heard that in the old times people put the fibre of bees nests and other fibre between the powder and the patched ball. Would it make sence to put a felt wad under the pached ball? and if so why?


Many years ago I started running a dry patch down over the powder before ramming down my lubed patched ball. This prevents the lube from wetting the powder charge.I believe it improves consistancy and a felt wad would do the same thing
 
horsetrader said:
I have heard that in the old times people put the fibre of bees nests and other fibre between the powder and the patched ball. Would it make sence to put a felt wad under the pached ball? and if so why?

I have never heard of wasps nests being used historically. It was thought up by a modern gun writer about 30 years ago.
There are several simple ways to wad a rifle, just patch put down over the powder is one way. Felt wads must be significantly over sized to actually seal around the ball.
Dan
 
Well, this is one of those thing that if it was not so, it should have been. Or something to that effect.
 
i was wondering about the lube patch getting the powder moist..i think ill try your way with the dry patch first..makes sence to me
 
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