does anyone have anyreal good information onshootng the Ferguson Breechloading flintlock . I have heard the stories about them fouling up after four or five shotes , blow by etc but today I spoke to a man at a company (not the Rifle shoppe or Naragansat arms) that claims everyone has built them wrong and is shooting them wrong.1. He said the orriginal models had a groove on the bottem to axxept a leather washer which helped prevent the blow by on the bottem , he said completly if all else is done correctly . 2. He said the orriginal rifle was shot using a special fine grain German powder. He further said that he has found some special blend of goex that duplicated this but was not really willing to tell me how to do it until my gun was built and shooting , for some odd reason. 3. He said the orriginal guns had 90 grain chambers not the apx 72 you see now and the trick was to only load 60 grains leaving a cavity and also this would help to prevent getting powder in the threads which jams the action until cleaned. Now I realize this would prevent the old idea of cranking it up and pushing the spare powder in the pan but he says they shoot all over the country like this and have no problems done this way for many many many shots.Any ideas or other secrets of shooting these guns. ? I had a beautiful sporter some years ago copied after the Durrs egg model with gold leaves on the barrel and silver face on the lock , never shot it and had to sell it , hoping to one find it again and rebuy it . The action like the other action I just bought was made by Steve Sklaney in the 70's.
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Ferguson flintlock
- Thread starter lacerote
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My information may be wrong, but I've read somewhere that there are only two original Fergusons known to exist in the US--one in a museum in Tennessee and one in a museum in Detroit. I also read that when Narragansett made their Ferguson, they disassembled the one in Detroit to make castings of all the parts, including individual screws. I don't know if they would have been allowed to disassemble it or not, but if so, then it would be a direct copy of an original and properly made.
There are several military pattern Ferguson rifles in existence.Two are museums in England and one is pesumably Ferguson's personal rifle since it came fom the W. Keith Neal collection,Neal having gotten the gun from Pitfour,the Ferguson family in Scotland.There are two military versions in the U.S ,one owned by the NPS in Morristown,N.J.and the other in the Smithsonian.There are also two probably civilian versions,the one given by Ferguson to his 2nd in command DuPuyster is in Milwauke and the other is in the West Point Museum.There were some civilian pattern rifles made by Durs Egg and I believe there was a gun purporting to be one of the Egg guns offered for sale on E bay some time ago.I don't recall how much it brought if in fact it sold.
I guess you've read this?
Johno's fergusson rifle
GWP Swenson (I think) in "Pictorial History of the Rifle makes the cryptic comment that when Fergusson tested his prototype for the Board of Ordnance in a driving rainstorm, that these were the "ideal conditions" for his rifle.
Wether thats irony, or a refference to the need to wash out the threads on the "breachblock" i don't know ::
if the latter it might indicate someone had tested one of the originals at some stage...
also note that similar types of rifle had been in use since about 1650 without much complaint, but also without much success outside of the sporting shooters world.
Johno's fergusson rifle
GWP Swenson (I think) in "Pictorial History of the Rifle makes the cryptic comment that when Fergusson tested his prototype for the Board of Ordnance in a driving rainstorm, that these were the "ideal conditions" for his rifle.
Wether thats irony, or a refference to the need to wash out the threads on the "breachblock" i don't know ::
if the latter it might indicate someone had tested one of the originals at some stage...
also note that similar types of rifle had been in use since about 1650 without much complaint, but also without much success outside of the sporting shooters world.
After talking with Ernie at Great War Milataria in chambersburg Pa and the curator of the NRA arms museum who agrees, Ernie has studied more of these and fired more of these than anyone I can say I believe the buying public in the USA has been more or less duped. As reported Naragansat arms(Owned one) did not get it all correct according to these guys who say without a doubt the chamber was made way to small ,it should hold 90 grains but only be loaded with 65 to keep the powder from the threads. It should have been grooved to hold and supplied with a leather washer on the bottem and further I was told the screw should be Bronze , not steel as this has something to do with the contraction and expansion durring rapid fire to help seal and operate better. The Powder issue was also never explained to anyone which is why as Dennis MCandlis told me last night he has seen guys set their hats on fire from shooting them. I am now trying to find someone who can remake my screw from Bronze if anyone knows of a capable machinest with the right tools.I will also get the washer added to my latest Ferguson project andn then try and unravel the powder issue. Ernie Promises to tell me once the gun is ready to shoot. Also was that Ebay gun a repro Durrs Egg or the real thing ? I thought no guns on Ebay ?
Eagles,Who are you having your "ferg." built by ???? I am planning on having one built by the Rifle Shoppe. I would like to investigate another sourse ( not because of his work, I have 1 of his Bakers & it is GREAT & Accurate :
, especially if your info is correct.
:thanks: Puffer
, especially if your info is correct.:thanks: Puffer
Eagles, I got to thinking about the one that sold and I belive the gun was on one those on line auctions rather than Ebay. After all the first thing to go is not the legs.As I recall,however, the gun wasn't a repro and wasn't at all as high priced as I thought it would be.
Actually I have an orriginal Steve Sklaney action , the first person I believe to make the new ones in the usa from the 70's. He no longer makes them but I am getting a Bronze screw to replace the steel one in case this is correct. Contact Great War Milataria on the web , they are making they say the Fergusons with all of the things I mentioned. I will warn you they are very expensive. They also told me they are making the Lewis and Clark repeating milatary air rifle ! Dont even ask the price unles you want heart failure. Talk to Ernie he can tell you his research . one thing though Steve Sklany had the orriginal Ferguson Patent documents he made his from andn some of the things Ernie says are not in them , but they could have beenlater improvements. Eagles
Okwaho, do you or anyone have nay pictures of the Fancy Ferguson made by Durrs Eggg for one of the Princes of England ? It was pictured in some coffee table book but I cant remember what book. Would love to get another picture of that gun as It was what I used to have my first one made back in the 70's in Pa . Thanks . Eagles
Early last year I saw an original Ferguson which was said to possibly be Ferguson's personal rifle, since it came from the Ferguson ancestral home. It was on loan from a museum in England (London I believe) to the museum here in Charleston, where a special display on the siege and occupation of Charleston by the British was held. It did have a Durrs Egg marked lock. However, I was not aware of civilian model Fergusons, although I have seen references to officer models (I believe they had a sliding bayonet and may have been shorter).
While on the subject of the Ferguson, about 10 years or so ago I read an article in Man At Arms about the Ferguson at King's Mountain being stolen in August 1966. Apparently an original Ferguson had been on display there. About the time of the article, someone here in Charleston had contacted an antique arms dealer in West Virginia, stating he had a Ferguson for sale. The dealer remembered the theft of the Ferguson many years earlier and contacted the police in West Virginia. They in turn contacted the police in Charleston, who went to the individual's house and discovered the Ferguson. It was the one stolen from King's Mountain, and had been stolen by the individual trying to sell it. Does anyone know anything about this?
I have seen that for the 225th anniversary of the battle the weekend of 7 October, King's Mountain will have an original Ferguson on display.
While on the subject of the Ferguson, about 10 years or so ago I read an article in Man At Arms about the Ferguson at King's Mountain being stolen in August 1966. Apparently an original Ferguson had been on display there. About the time of the article, someone here in Charleston had contacted an antique arms dealer in West Virginia, stating he had a Ferguson for sale. The dealer remembered the theft of the Ferguson many years earlier and contacted the police in West Virginia. They in turn contacted the police in Charleston, who went to the individual's house and discovered the Ferguson. It was the one stolen from King's Mountain, and had been stolen by the individual trying to sell it. Does anyone know anything about this?
I have seen that for the 225th anniversary of the battle the weekend of 7 October, King's Mountain will have an original Ferguson on display.
What does anyone think of forming a Ferguson group to share information on firing ,accuracy etc ? I for one would like to know what everyone is finding after they shoot the gun , secrets to keeping it clean etc ? Their are enough of us that had or have these that if we all share our experiance we can get a better picture of shootng these . Eagles
The fancy Ferguson is pictured on page 74 of "The Pleasure of Guns" by Rosa and May
http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/Sear...f+guns&x=62
Abebooks (link above) has it for as little as $4.
Or I can scan the photo and email it to you. Sure is pretty.
http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/Sear...f+guns&x=62
Abebooks (link above) has it for as little as $4.
Or I can scan the photo and email it to you. Sure is pretty.
HMMM was not aware that getting a group of people together to find out what success and failure has been noted from firing a famous revolutionary war Flintlock would be considered Rubbish . Saw a nice powder Horn at the Last Cla show which read. "A Man who is all talk and no Deeds is like a Garden Full Of Weeds" lots of Weeds arround on this gun , Personally I prefer the Deeds.
This confirms without adding to the tale
The park's original Ferguson was stolen sometime in the late 1960s or early 1970s, Revels said, but recovered in the early 1990s. With the reopening of the museum, it will be returned to a secure display
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/12350421.htm
Seems that there's a cache of them lost to history, too:
BOSTON'S FERGUSON RIFLE CACHE
By JEFF FERGUSON
From page 25 of the October 1977 issue of Lost Treasure magazine.
Copyright
The park's original Ferguson was stolen sometime in the late 1960s or early 1970s, Revels said, but recovered in the early 1990s. With the reopening of the museum, it will be returned to a secure display
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/12350421.htm
Seems that there's a cache of them lost to history, too:
BOSTON'S FERGUSON RIFLE CACHE
By JEFF FERGUSON
From page 25 of the October 1977 issue of Lost Treasure magazine.
Copyright
W.Russel, thanks I just ordered it , yes it is a beautiful gun , does it say where the gun is located currently by the way , because as I remember it is one shot of the lock side to just the rear site and I allways wondered what the other side looked like and if it was a full or half stock gun
Eagles: No, the text sheds no light on the location of the gun, and there is only the one picture. But it's 9x12 inches, full color - something that would look great framed and hung on the wall. And dirt cheap even if you cut it out of the book.
The fact that it was made for the Prince of Wales, later King George IV, means it's probably in one of the British museums.
The fact that it was made for the Prince of Wales, later King George IV, means it's probably in one of the British museums.
