Fg velocity compared to other granulations?

[Britsmoothy]

Don't knock it till you try it. I have yet to anyone claim Fg patterns worse than FFg or FFFg. Just about everyone is pleasantly surprised by improved patterns.

No harm in trying it in rifles either. My TC Renegade loves Fg.

I have tried it....several times. Not for me thanks.

 

[azmntman]

"In all sincerity you may have a gun fit issue."

Brit, I am sure your correct, have had many folks say so. I have a busted neck with wire n hip bone holding it together and I have issues lining up sites. Plus I shoot left handed and I an right handed. But other than that I am perfectly NORMAL, do not listen to the rumors from friends and family!

Know I am not afraid of recoil! I do NOT like the cheek slap type one bit though. Recoil belongs in yer shoulder. So though I like lots of power if I can shoot excellent patterns and NOT get bitc_ slapped I'm where I need to be. Will give 2f a try though! Maybe with the skychief load it wont remind me of a bad date night.

 

[Britsmoothy]

"In all sincerity you may have a gun fit issue."

Brit, I am sure your correct, have had many folks say so. I have a busted neck with wire n hip bone holding it together and I have issues lining up sites. Plus I shoot left handed and I an right handed. But other than that I am perfectly NORMAL, do not listen to the rumors from friends and family!

Know I am not afraid of recoil! I do NOT like the cheek slap type one bit though. Recoil belongs in yer shoulder. So though I like lots of power if I can shoot excellent patterns and NOT get bitc_ slapped I'm where I need to be. Will give 2f a try though! Maybe with the skychief load it wont remind me of a bad date night.

Ahhr....that's different!
My apologies sir.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well I tried 1Fg in my 20 gauge trade gun. I have taken squirrels in the past with this gun. I used a measure set for 80 grains, and 1¼ ounce of #6 shot. I went Nill for three, and Brit Smoothie mentioned to me that I needed a finer powder. Well, he's harvested a lot more small game and birds that I am likely to ever harvest in my lifetime, so..., I paid attention.

I went back to 2Fg and 3Fg, and was good on squirrels again. So I think he has something to what he's found.

Now were I to use an 8 bore for the sake of discussion, and 3 ounces of shot...., results might vary...

LD

 

[azmntman]

Dave....are you thinking there was not enough power or the patterns were bad? My only issue with the 1F is penetrating power but I will be checking that soon! In my experience tree rats can be tough to kill with shot (a .410 for sure). I only hunt em with .32 in last many many moons. Son had a .410 out and was knocking em outta teees only to have skitadle away!

 

[azmntman]

Ahhr....that's different!
My apologies sir.

None needed, your post was a great idea and obviously meant to be helpfull! I know many shot guns I seem to shoot a foot low, rolled my first ever turkey called in. Switched guns and 2 hrs later bagged my first! The gun I used first is grampa's old single 12. Gotta learn how to mount it, if I can with my metalic parts.

 

[Skychief]

JCKelly, I have the books mentioned except Dillin's. I agree. They are full of information, much of it forgotten by many today.

Best regards, Skychief.

 

[rodwha]

Equal volumes is not the norm. Also called square loads. It's not the norm.
It's just the old maxim for the ratio of powder to shot measure. Not the ratio of shot to powder!
More powder to shot rarely works out well in muzzleloaders however using more shot to powder often works out well. Especially with 3f and finer

I’ve often read that 2F and down is what’s needed to keep the initial shock of ignition from reforming the pellets and messing up the pattern. And I’ve read you always use finer powders with terrific results and figured once I decide to get a 28ga I’d try 3F first since it’s what I use in my revolvers and .50 cal rifle. Since the idea of 2F is prevalent I wonder if there’s something to it with larger gauges possibly? Maybe with larger shot? Of course there’s hardness of the shot too. And there’s the “quality” of the powder as well. I use Olde Eynsford so it’s energetic. I also like to work with Triple 7 in case I can’t get my powder. It’s done equally well in my handguns.

 

[Daryl Crawford]

Just got a pound of 1F to try in my .62 fowling piece. I have had good results with 2F on pheasant, but am looking to tighten my pattern for those bearded rascals this spring. Hope to get some range time this Saturday.

 

[Historian]

Gentlemen, it really is not rocket science. 1Fg is a good powder to use if you are pushing a large heavy payload. It needs weight to a achieve a good powder burn because of the large kernel size. You see guys using it with heavy conicals in their Sharpe's rifle for that very reason. Also in large bore shotguns pushing heavy weighted payloads. Example, when I shot my Pedersoli 10 ga I would use 2Fg for for regular loads 1 1/4 oz to 1 1/2 oz loads. When I went after turkey or geese I would switch to 1Fg for 1 5/8 oz to 1 3/4 oz loads and I would achieve good powder burn with the heavy weight payloads. If I used 1Fg for the lighter loads the powder burn was horrible. I tried using 1Fg in my 20 ga and the results were heavy fouling using 1 once loads. Gave the can away. Again chronograph results showed a marked decrease in velocity's when using 1Fg verses 2Fg or 3Fg. If I was shooting real heavy payloads of shot it would be my #1 choice. However shooting standard loads I stick with 2Fg and 3Fg, especially going after flying targets.
I use Leather OP wads and 3/8 inch wool felt wads lubed in beeswax/olive oil I cut my self.
Good shooting guys.

 

[3Setters]

What velocity were you getting from those three powders as a reference for future consideration.

 

[Sam squanch]

I read in a very old book that 1 f was used in long barrels, no matter the bore size, and 4 f was to be used in short pistol barrels, no matter the bore size. So if you had a 50 caliber smooth bore with a 50 inch barrel, the 1 f would have enough “push” to propel the shot load all the way to the muzzle with good velocity. If you cut your barrel down, you would need to go to a finer powder .

 

[Britsmoothy]

I’ve often read that 2F and down is what’s needed to keep the initial shock of ignition from reforming the pellets and messing up the pattern. And I’ve read you always use finer powders with terrific results and figured once I decide to get a 28ga I’d try 3F first since it’s what I use in my revolvers and .50 cal rifle. Since the idea of 2F is prevalent I wonder if there’s something to it with larger gauges possibly? Maybe with larger shot? Of course there’s hardness of the shot too. And there’s the “quality” of the powder as well. I use Olde Eynsford so it’s energetic. I also like to work with Triple 7 in case I can’t get my powder. It’s done equally well in my handguns.

The deforming pellets us an old wife's tale that somehow became lore.
My take on it is the fine stuff has peaked earlier and thus the gasses dont rush the shot column on emerging from the barrel as much as the slower still developing gas production of the larger powder.
With the courser stuff I find it works with an uneconomical payload. In other words holding it back and forcing it to burn!
For 90% of my hunting it's just not necessary to tip 2oz of shot in for a bunny. 1oz plus and 3/4 the volume of the finest grades works just perfectly and is efficient. (3/4oz or less in the .45).
On pellet deformation, I have only witnessed that from nitro guns. All recovered shot from game from my muzzleloaders is still nice and round and goes back in a barrel.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Dave....are you thinking there was not enough power or the patterns were bad? My only issue with the 1F is penetrating power ...,

My thinking is, as suggested by my British Mentor, not enough power.

I'm kinda 18th century in how I judge shotgun results... I don't chronograph velocities, but use cause-and-effect...and a pattern board
Using 2Fg in my flintlock trade gun with cylinder bore..., all squirrels fired at were harvested.
Using 2Fg in my Pedersoli caplock SxS (has choked barrels) ..., squirrels, partridge, rabbit, and pheasants, all harvested.

Using 1Fg, powder measure set at same load as 2Fg..., nil for three tries on squirrels. This was in my "squirrel woods" where I normally hunt them so my distances are consistent.

I haven't tried the Tuna-Can test, at 25 yards for 1Fg, but my hypothesis is it will be a poor result.
(Empty, steel Tuna can, bottom toward you at 25 yards, shoot your shotgun and see how much if any of the shot penetrates. Either adjust to a bit more powder OR larger shot, if results are poor, and retest)

LD

 

[Britsmoothy]

My thinking is, as suggested by my British Mentor, not enough power.

I'm kinda 18th century in how I judge shotgun results... I don't chronograph velocities, but use cause-and-effect...and a pattern board
Using 2Fg in my flintlock trade gun with cylinder bore..., all squirrels fired at were harvested.
Using 2Fg in my Pedersoli caplock SxS (has choked barrels) ..., squirrels, partridge, rabbit, and pheasants, all harvested.

Using 1Fg, powder measure set at same load as 2Fg..., nil for three tries on squirrels. This was in my "squirrel woods" where I normally hunt them so my distances are consistent.

I haven't tried the Tuna-Can test, at 25 yards for 1Fg, but my hypothesis is it will be a poor result.
(Empty, steel Tuna can, bottom toward you at 25 yards, shoot your shotgun and see how much if any of the shot penetrates. Either adjust to a bit more powder OR larger shot, if results are poor, and retest)

LD

That duplicates my approach and results, unless I tip near double the payload and increase powder charge of which then causes a conflict in my brain!

 

[wattlebuster]

May I suggest that you pick up a copy of the book about muzzleloading shotguns by the late great V.M. Starr. I have had it since the mid maybe late 70s. Ive read it a bunch of times an every single thing I have tried that he wrote about worked exactly as he said. He is the reason I tried 1F in my 12s and 10s an use it to this day. It has brought down many a squirrel, knocked down many a longbeard. I have never tried it in a 20/62 smoothbore being I aint got one so I cant say what it would do there. As for the smoothbores that I do have 1F is what goes down the barrel cause it just plain ole works. Beards, spurs an fans says plenty to me