Finished the Thumper project

[chorizo]

Well, I finished this long term 10 month project today. I have 4 guns that made the cut out of 7. All 54 cal.

24" 1:38 twist 1" ATF in Renegade stock shooting a 525gr No Excuses bullet with 110 grains of Triple 7 FFFg
23" 1:32 twist 15/16" ATF in WMC stock shooting a 485 gr No Excuses bullet with 110 grains of Triple 7 FFFg
23" 1:38 twist 15/16" ATF in WMC stock shooting a 485 gr No Excuses bullet with 110 grains of Triple 7 FFFg
22" 1:32 twist 1" ATF in WMC stock shooting a 485 gr No Excuses bullet with 110 grains of Triple 7 FFFg

(As an aside, the 23" 1:32 twist shoots a 450 gr plains bullet with 100 grains of Triple 7 FFFg very accurately, but I have opted for simplicity to go with the 485 gr No Excuses and 110gr of Triple 7 FFFg to keep my hunting bag simple if I change guns. Two tins of bullets clearly marked and the vials of 110 gr of powder)

They all shoot 3" or less groups at 100 yards, have no more than 3" drop at 125 yards with 100 yard sight-in and have retained energy at 125 yards in excess of 1300 ftlbs.


They are sighted-in, cleaned and ready for elk

I have my eyes on this fine yearling bull.

 

[longcruise]

How long do the nipples last in those hammers?

 

[chorizo]

Quite a while I am using a new hardened stainless musket nipples from Track of the Wolf and erosion is minimal. I get at least 50 shots out of them before any noticeable wear. I pin them every cleaning

Track's 416 stainless steel nipples:​

Made from 416 alloy (12% Chromium), the first free machining stainless alloy with Martensitic qualities (hardenable, tempers normally, and is magnetic unlike most stainless alloys). Stronger, tougher, more resistant to battering, 416 alloy is longer lasting than the famous old Ampco bronze nipples, now obsolete.

Nipple, 1/4-28 thread for rifle, with cone for military musket cap, stainless steel, requires NW-100 musket nipple wrench Cone length: 0.440" Thread journal length: 0.195" Overall length: 0.635" Diameter of base: 0.307" RST-MS

 

[ETipp]

Very nice work. Congrats. Hope you get your elk this year.

 

[chorizo]

This took 6 cans of powder, 7 different types of conical per caliber per gun, chronographing to validate velocity, lots of stock reinforcement and innumerable hours at the 50 yard and 100 yard line and untold number of patches between shots (two per shot alcohol swab out then a drying patch) and lots and lots of bullseye targets.
Thank God for covered benches.

Lots of disappointment in the 58 cal as I couldn't get it to make the accuracy I needed at the velocity I needed for the ranges I wanted.

21" is too short and the accuracy in inconsistent at higher powder loads, 22" and 24" are fine but with 23" being the sweet spot. 1" ATF is good for the heaviest of loads, but 15/16" barrels at 23" in a White Mountain Carbine stock that has been reinforced balances nicely, carries easily and holds up fine. They are 6lb guns with, of course, the 1" ATF 24" being just an oz or two over 7lbs with a Renegade stock.

1:32 twist does the best, with 1:38 a very close second. The availability, consistency and accuracy achieved with No Excuses bullets won the day, with some plains bullets also in the running. Flat base bullets with oversized Ox-Yoke lubed OP wads did the best. Triple 7 in FFFg gave me the velocities I needed in around 100 grains with accuracy being better at 110 grains than at 90.

Recoil from the bench was stout, but very tolerable using a gel pad from the rests. No sore cheeks, or bruising in the 54s. The 58's were a little more punishing, but also tolerable. Offhand shooting the four 54's is not unlike shooting a 6lb SxS in 12 ga. I reserved the 525 grain bullet for the 24" gun as it carries 1lb more in weight to absorb recoil.

These are 125 yard elk guns with hunting sights, slings and easy handling. An expensive undertaking, but for me, well worth the results.

 

[chorizo]

I would like to thank @SDSmlf in particular for providing me the instruct on reinforcing the stocks, fitting a breech plug to the big 58 that I have for sale, pointing me in the right direction on parts and the SS nipples and for most of all listening to me air out concepts and ideas on guns, loads, bullets and lube.

I would have been wandering through the dark in lots of cases if not for him. Gents, he knows his guns and knows his stuff and is a precision craftsman and an analytical thinker.

I want to thank @TDM , @Relic shooter , @Bad Karma , and @Idaho Ron for allowing me to bounce ideas and for providing guidance also. @Brokenbear pointed me in the right direction on the Triple 7 powder.

Also like to thank all of those that sold me barrels, bullets and parts to get this done and of course Mr. Bobby Hoyt for turning around custom cut and rifled barrels to my specs.

Thanks Gents

 

[SDSmlf]

Love the haircuts and reboring of the older TC barrels. Gives them character and new purpose.

I do take exception with the thread’s title. I wouldn’t call it a finished project until one or more of these ‘thumpers’ fulfills their intended purpose, and that can’t happen until opening day of elk season at the earliest.

Interesting project.

 

[chorizo]

Love the haircuts and reboring of the older TC barrels. Gives them character and new purpose.

I do take exception with the thread’s title. I wouldn’t call it a finished project until one or more of these ‘thumpers’ fulfills their intended purpose, and that can’t happen until opening day of elk season at the earliest.

Interesting project.

Point taken. I will look to remedy that in a couple of weeks!

 

[user 31232]

Well, I finished this long term 10 month project today. I have 4 guns that made the cut out of 7. All 54 cal.

24" 1:38 twist 1" ATF in Renegade stock shooting a 525gr No Excuses bullet with 110 grains of Triple 7 FFFg
23" 1:32 twist 15/16" ATF in WMC stock shooting a 485 gr No Excuses bullet with 110 grains of Triple 7 FFFg
23" 1:38 twist 15/16" ATF in WMC stock shooting a 485 gr No Excuses bullet with 110 grains of Triple 7 FFFg
22" 1:32 twist 1" ATF in WMC stock shooting a 485 gr No Excuses bullet with 110 grains of Triple 7 FFFg

(As an aside, the 23" 1:32 twist shoots a 450 gr plains bullet with 100 grains of Triple 7 FFFg very accurately, but I have opted for simplicity to go with the 485 gr No Excuses and 110gr of Triple 7 FFFg to keep my hunting bag simple if I change guns. Two tins of bullets clearly marked and the vials of 110 gr of powder)

They all shoot 3" or less groups at 100 yards, have no more than 3" drop at 125 yards with 100 yard sight-in and have retained energy at 125 yards in excess of 1300 ftlbs.


They are sighted-in, cleaned and ready for elk



View attachment 239608

I have my eyes on this fine yearling bull.
View attachment 239609

Which one is mine?

 

[chorizo]

Which one is mine?

I can sure tell you how to make one of your own!

 

[user 31232]

I can sure tell you how to make one of your own!

Hahaha ! Good luck in the upcoming hunts !

 

[chorizo]

If I knew now what I didn't know then and only wanted to have one gun, it would be the following:

A 54 cal 23" 15/16" ATF barrel with a 1:32 twist mounted in a 50 cal White Mountain Carbine stock that I have reinforced. The rear sight would be moved back 3" and mounted using a Williams CVA (dovetail) Firesight with Ghost ring and the front sight would be a dovetail Firesight .500 high. It would use TOW SS musket nipples. Of course Bobby Hoyt would bore and rifle the barrel

I would shoot out of it 110 grains of Triple 7 FFFg with a No Excuses 485 grain bullet and Schutzen/RIO musket caps. OP wad would be OX-Yoke 58 cal pre lubes. I would use my own lube that is lanolin/beeswax/mutton tallow/ Stihl 2 cycle motor oil mix.

As an alternative, I would shoot 100 grains of Triple 7 FFFg with a 450 grain Plains bullet.

That distills it down to the optimal.


LUBE: 3 oz beeswax (3 parts) 3 fluid ozs Stihl ...a little over 1 bottle (3 parts) 4 ozs lanolin (4 parts) 2 oz mutton tallow (2 parts)

54 cal 450 gr plains bullet

 

[ETipp]

I must say that I am very impressed with your work. You have obviously invested hours of research alone prior to taking on such a feat. The results are outstanding. Very methodical to say the least. Most people would never take on such a task and if they did, they would most likely flame out well before finding the optimal.

Now its time to go out and put those self designed tools to some real testing.

Good luck, buddy. Hope you kill the elk you are after.

 

[chorizo]

Thank you, Sir. I'll try to get one of those elk that you left on Sunset Peak!

For those who may be interested, I am attaching the external ballistics (for my alt/temp/humidity) of the 485 gr No Excuses. It is coming out of the 23" barrel at 1530 FPS (on the 22" 1512fps......just a tad slower but insignificant for the external ballistics).

As you can see it stays supersonic out to 125 yards, which I have found important for long range accuracy. Things get funky when a bullet goes transonic, then into subsonic.

I am providing the calculators I used for Internal Ballistics and External Ballistics. The links below are what I used for my initial calculations for bullet and velocity suitability. While the external ballistic calculator is just an approximation as it isn't designed for flat-based slugs, it is close enough and does give decent retained energy calculations. BC for most conicals run from .140 to .210. Unless known, I used .14. The P-Max powder calculator is another matter. Extremely accurate. If using Triple 777, add 10% to the velocity and pressure calculations. While I validated the velocities with a MagnetoSpeed chronograph, I never found them to be off more than 1%. There was more variation in changing from one jug of powder (when it ran out) to a new jug. In fact, I am so confident in it, I would say that if you don't have a chronograph, you can use this calculator with confidence to get your muzzle velocities.

https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/#!/
https://www.p-max.uk/cgi-bin/black_powder.cgi

 

[chorizo]

How long do the nipples last in those hammers?

@longcruise The most shot nipple I had, I dropped while cleaning and is in my yard somewhere...Can't find it for the life of me. I have a little box with .030 and .035 pins in it I have made for field/bench work when I was developing loads using Treso nipples and by habit would check the orifice periodically. If they are no go at .030, I keep using them, if the were over .030 I monitored them frequently, once they hit .035 I replaced them.

I decided, upon your questioning and that of a friend, to pin new and used nipples. The most used one I have now is 42 shots old. 22 shots using Triple 7 at 100grains of FFFG with 450 gr conical and 20 shots using Triple 7 at 110 grains FFFG with a 485 conical.

New (three of them) TOW SS mucket nipple pin at .028. All of my shot nipples...4 of them... (cleaned with no carbon) including the 42 shot round nipple pin at .028.

Like I said, no appreciable erosion, mushroom or flattening on the head.

 

[Bad Karma]

@longcruise The most shot nipple I had, I dropped while cleaning and is in my yard somewhere...Can't find it for the life of me. I have a little box with .030 and .035 pins in it I have made for field/bench work when I was developing loads using Treso nipples and by habit would check the orifice periodically. If they are no go at .030, I keep using them, if the were over .030 I monitored them frequently, once they hit .035 I replaced them.

I decided, upon your questioning and that of a friend, to pin new and used nipples. The most used one I have now is 42 shots old. 22 shots using Triple 7 at 100grains of FFFG with 450 gr conical and 20 shots using Triple 7 at 110 grains FFFG with a 485 conical.

New (three of them) TOW SS mucket nipple pin at .028. All of my shot nipples...4 of them... (cleaned with no carbon) including the 42 shot round nipple pin at .028.

Like I said, no appreciable erosion, mushroom or flattening on the head.

That’s much better than what I was expecting… but most of my experience with heavy for caliber bullets has been with the .45 and. .40 caliber rifles. Probably less than a few hundred shots with heavier bullets in .50 caliber and that’s been a while ago.

 

[Dobegrant]

This has been a great project to follow this past year, I love the thumpers, best of luck on your elk hunt.

 

[chorizo]

Thumper project complete. Elk down.

 

[SDSmlf]

Mission accomplished. Outstanding.

 

[Jasonb1911]

Awesome!! Good job!