First black powder rifle, headed to the range.

[Stantheman86]

WANO???

WANO is a German powder sold under Schuetzen

Just get a mixed lot of 2f and 3f. It's a good mid grade powder. I usually use Old Eynsford but I'll take the WANO if there's nothing else. I just ordered more 2f.

 

[Stantheman86]

Care to give a link? Haven’t seen WANO powder in quite a while and don’t remember Powderinc carrying it, but I’m getting older and forgetting stuff.

Powderinc.com

You have to sign a digital release and submit it. I like powderinc because they don't make me sign for it, so the FedEx guy can leave it on my back porch if I'm not home

 

[Stantheman86]

I'm probably going to turn my attention to this Parker-Hale P53, because I know it shoots to the sights and it likes .575 Minies so I can roll cartridges for it or just load them loose depending on how lazy I get.

Trying to turn into a scientist to shrink groups by 1" is less of a factor for me , I just use .575 Minies in everything with whatever lube , I hot dip with a cheap candle warmer and size them in a push thru sizer, and use 60 gr of 2f . I figure whatever accuracy I get , as long as it's acceptable, is fine with me. It's easier just to stay with as close as I can get to the standard load.

Maybe down the road I'll start playing with bigger Minies in some of my other rifles but I have a guy who makes me .575 Minies and is willing to ship them 400 at a time.

For the past 20 years I had a huge collection of military bolt action rifles and fired surplus ammo through them, so it's kinda ingrained into my soul to just shoot the "issue" ammo through rifles and have fun. I got back into muzzleloading for a change and it's like starting over again

 

[Britsmoothy]

So, 2F or 3F? Figuring 5 LBS is minimum order I'd like to try what seems to work the best. Or would that question be like starting an Oil thread on the Moto Guzzi forum?

An oil thread on a guzzi forum ....NO its not that bad

 

[Stantheman86]

I spent an entire summer shooting 1 smoothbore musket and it was so much less stressful

Just dump whatever blackpowder you have laying around in, drop a ball or balls in that are smaller than the pipe and ram phone book paper on top and just blast targets , and go home happy that you put holes in something. Usually just happy that the thing fired.

How was your range day?
I blasted a bunch of holes in paper at 25 yards and smoked up the entire gun club it was awesome

 

[Mooney 78865]

View attachment 85747

I'm probably going to turn my attention to this Parker-Hale P53, because I know it shoots to the sights and it likes .575 Minies so I can roll cartridges for it or just load them loose depending on how lazy I get.

Trying to turn into a scientist to shrink groups by 1" is less of a factor for me , I just use .575 Minies in everything with whatever lube , I hot dip with a cheap candle warmer and size them in a push thru sizer, and use 60 gr of 2f . I figure whatever accuracy I get , as long as it's acceptable, is fine with me. It's easier just to stay with as close as I can get to the standard load.

Maybe down the road I'll start playing with bigger Minies in some of my other rifles but I have a guy who makes me .575 Minies and is willing to ship them 400 at a time.

For the past 20 years I had a huge collection of military bolt action rifles and fired surplus ammo through them, so it's kinda ingrained into my soul to just shoot the "issue" ammo through rifles and have fun. I got back into muzzleloading for a change and it's like starting over again

Last week before going out for the first time I had no idea what to expect as to accuracy or what not. Part of the intrigue about the whole process of owning and shooting a black powder rifle was everything associated with it. From casting bullets, rolling cartridges, adjusting powder load, the whole gambit.
My wife and I spent 2 months on the road this spring in the motorhome. One of the places we visited was Gettysburg. I was intrigued by the re enactors we met at the museum. Had a long conversation with one of them that sort of peaked my interest. Couple that with having just retired, well, one thing led to another and here I am.

What I have noticed so far is that there is little difference between the Parker Hale .577 rounds and the Rapine .577 rounds as far as grouping at 50 yards with 60 grains of Pyrodex. There is a noticeable difference with the .575 Rapine rounds. They don't group as well, which seems to support the barrel diameter I got of .578. My thought is I will purchase a mold for the .577 Rapine style which will of course mean I will need everything else needed to cast my own rounds. I have already made cartridges and am here to tell you it is a lot cleaner and a whole lot less hassle loading. I went out the second time with loose lubed rounds so I could adjust the powder load. Yeah, I like the paper cartridges much better!
Hopefully, in the next couple weeks I will have an abundance of powder and the ability to cast my own rounds.

 

[Mooney 78865]

An oil thread on a guzzi forum ....NO its not that bad

Thank GOD! LOL! There are not a lot of the Stelvios here in the states. Apparently the WHOLE production run was something like 6,400. There are a couple of forums for Moto Guzzi, and a couple threads for the Stelvio, but by far the largest is the one on Adventure Rider.
Typically I get two types, those who go "I didn't know Moto Guzzi was still in business", or my favorite "who make's it?" Moto Guzzi, "I know, but who makes it?" Moto Guzzi makes it. " I see that, but who makes the motorcycle?" Honda
"that's what I thought" I fear for the younger generation, I really do.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Thank GOD! LOL! There are not a lot of the Stelvios here in the states. Apparently the WHOLE production run was something like 6,400. There are a couple of forums for Moto Guzzi, and a couple threads for the Stelvio, but by far the largest is the one on Adventure Rider.
Typically I get two types, those who go "I didn't know Moto Guzzi was still in business", or my favorite "who make's it?" Moto Guzzi, "I know, but who makes it?" Moto Guzzi makes it. " I see that, but who makes the motorcycle?" Honda
"that's what I thought" I fear for the younger generation, I really do.View attachment 85783View attachment 85784

My last one was a v11 sport.
Don't ride any more but if I were to again I would plumb for a simple v7 or v9 stone.

 

[TFoley]

The guy at CapandBall.eu is a muzzleloading match shooter and he is happy with 4" groups at 100 Yards with a .58 Rifled Musket, and he says this was the acceptable standard in 1855 for these rifles. He was also shooting an original Bridesburg 1863 Springfield that was hitting off to the left, so I'm just gonna go with that and say my rifle and groups fall within the standard

He is a bit more than that, like the Hungarian national champion a few times...member of the MLAIC gold medal team - that kind of thing. He's no weekend plinker, for sure.

 

[Mooney 78865]

My last one was a v11 sport.
Don't ride any more but if I were to again I would plumb for a simple v7 or v9 stone.

If I could find a V11 that hadn't been mucked with, I'd buy it. I do like the Griso in white too, just saying!

 

[Mooney 78865]

He is a bit more than that, like the Hungarian national champion a few times...member of the MLAIC gold medal team - that kind of thing. He's no weekend plinker, for sure.

I've watched a number of his videos. Very informative.

 

[TFoley]

I've watched a number of his videos. Very informative.

Apart from his full-time job as military history lecturer at the Hungarian version of West Point, he and his wife and brother run the biggest and only BP-everything store in Hungary. He is very good friends with the father and son Pedersolis, but has his own extensive collection of BP-era rifles. handguns and shotguns. I commend his channel to anybody interested in the shooting and tactical use of BP era firearms

 

[Stantheman86]

Apart from his full-time job as military history lecturer at the Hungarian version of West Point, he and his wife and brother run the biggest and only BP-everything store in Hungary. He is very good friends with the father and son Pedersolis, but has his own extensive collection of BP-era rifles. handguns and shotguns. I commend his channel to anybody interested in the shooting and tactical use of BP era firearms

He shoots a ton of Pedersoli stuff, his videos are probably the best out there.

I feel better watching him shoot Pedersoli and original .58 Rifle-Muskets at 100 yards and expecting to see a ragged hole, he has a 4-5" group and he's happy. I'm like if a guy like that is putting up 4" with a Pedersoli 1861 than I feel great about my 6-8" groups. He even tells you what the weapon is capable of historically and what the "standard" was. I could probably spend a day watching his YouTube videos. He's a "real" guy, not a pumped up YouTube celebrity and he'll show you the absolute best these rifles can perform. I rewatched a lot of his .58 Rifle-Musket related videos yesterday. When he shot a nice 5 shot group at 50 yards with a Bridesburg contract 63 Springfield and it was clustered nicely 1" to the left of the bull, I'm like ok if he's ok with that than I'm ok with it.

Hickok45 is ok, he has this cult following but I didn't expand my knowledge base watching Hickok load a 61 Springfield with loose powder and Minies and blast a 2 liter at 3 feet with it.

 

[Mooney 78865]

Agreed, I've watched Hickok45 as well, Capandball.eu seems legit. I should look up more of his stuff.

 

[Stantheman86]

He's absolutely geared toward people who target shoot with muzzleloaders and are interested in the history.

I'm like, if I can't go shooting I'll just watch that guy shoot a Civil War era target rifle or a .69 Flintlock

There's some horribly cringy stuff on YouTube like that kid who beats a .570 roundball and a dry cleaning patch down the bore of a repro Springfield 61 and is like "I don't know how they did this in battle , these are the guns our great Grandparents used to kill each other " and people just comment stuff like "don't do anything this kid is doing ever " I cringed so hard I almost broke my neck

 

[dave951]

And that's why I tell folks to be highly skeptical about anything on Utoob. Lots of misinformation, some downright dangerous, and tons of reenactorisms and "common knowledge".

I like Hickok45 for the entertainment value and I used to shoot metallic silhouettes like he does in his videos but the informative content is basic at best. CapNBall has good videos, especially from an historic perspective. If you get down into the weeds on what he does, he'll admit the issue sights are often the limiting factor on those arms and that often people with those guns have no clue as to how the issue sights were designed to be used, like those on a Lorenz. Iraqvet8888 is amusing from time to time. I could care less about stuff like Demolition Ranch. One channel I do take time to check in on is Forgotten Weapons. Ian (gun Jesus) covers pretty much everything antique and has some interesting black powder videos.

 

[Stantheman86]

Once Mr. Nemeth on capandball told us that the .58 Rifle-Muskets were capable of 4" groups at 100 as an "acceptable range " it was like something clicked in my head and things made more sense. Followed by a very well shot video of him putting these rifles through their paces on a target range and shooting 3-4" . Very informative videos. This stuff actually helps me in my hobby of shooting these because this gives me a baseline of what to expect .

 

[Wildrangeringreen]

The traditional English cartridge for the Enfield did not use wadding. The powder went in from one end, the cartridge is then reversed. The lubed end containing the bullet is then inserted into the muzzle and the remainder snapped off, leaving the bullet ready to be rammed.

Please watch -

Please read 'The English Cartridge' by Brett Gibbons and watch -

a. Youtube - paper cartridges, and

b. Youtube - Britishmuzzleloading.

Brett Gibbons also makes a whole range of paper cartridges - check out his web site.

I think He's talking about using the US 1862 Expanding Ball musket cartridge, where the Burton-bullet is separated from the paper prior to loading. I hope the "wadding" he's talking about is the paper patching loaded with the bullet with the Pritchett style cartridge. Otherwise, he didn't realize that the Brits started updating their cartridge design when the 1851 rifle-musket was adopted (unlikely).

When I started using cartridges in my rifles, I started out with that god-forsaken style of cartridge; almost made me quit using them because they weren't much faster/easier than vials and bullets in an organized bag lol. Then there's was light, the seas were calmed, and I came across the Pritchett Cartridge... never looked back. It is now the basis for all my muzzle loading.

 

[Mooney 78865]

Once Mr. Nemeth on capandball told us that the .58 Rifle-Muskets were capable of 4" groups at 100 as an "acceptable range " it was like something clicked in my head and things made more sense. Followed by a very well shot video of him putting these rifles through their paces on a target range and shooting 3-4" . Very informative videos. This stuff actually helps me in my hobby of shooting these because this gives me a baseline of what to expect .

I watched his comparison of two 2 band "Enfield's" today. He does provide a prospective of to expect. I guess I need to take into account that we are shooting "iron" sights and not scopes. His explanation of powder charges, for me is pretty insightful.

 

[Stantheman86]

The US pattern of paper cartridges were simplified throughout the years, I tried making the 1855 Pattern with the separate powder tube paper inside and they were easier to load, crack the cartridge on the muzzle and take the Minie out. Just too time consuming to make so if do feel like making cartridges, I make the simplified 1863 version. They're easier to carry to the range and I feel more authentic using them. When I finally clean up my original 1861 Springfields I kinda feel like I'll be obligated to bring 40 cartridges in a cartridge box to shoot them or I'm not living right.