First Build

[Crewdawg445]

Evening gents, seeking the knowledge of you experienced builder's with your opinions on manufacturer's/ kits for a first time build. I've Refinished multiple rifles, blackpowder and centerfire, but I'm longing and wanting more out of my black powder love and addiction.... I'm in love with the simple lines and beauty of an offering from Track of the wolf in regards to their southern mountain rifle. I'm shooting for a poor boy theme, simplicity by design is what I like. However, since this rifle would cost upwards of $900.00, I've also been eye balling some of Jim Chambers kits, specifically a Lancaster kit for the history and being PA is our neighbor! :grin: Since I will be pushing close to a $1,000, concerning quality and being a first time builder of such a beautiful piece, I'm leaning towards a Chambers kit, any thoughts and professional opinions? Thank you!

Ben

 

[agill]

I recommend Jim Chambers'. I've done two and I would do them again. :thumbsup:

 

[BradCayton]

Another Chambers vote here. I'm starting my second one now.

 

[Vaino]

The 3 Chambers' early Lancaster "kits" that I've built produced excellent LRs....some mistakes were present on the precarves, but nothing that couldn't be fixed. By all means get this "kit" which does require some tools, knowledge and quite a few hours and isn't at all like the factory sand, stain, finish and assemble kits......Fred

 

[ryzman]

ive had several years to decide on my "kit" supplier and I went with Jim Chambers... best barrels, locks, and really nice wood... plus barbie is a peach...
just purchased both the little feller 50cal and edward marshall 62cal... upon inspection i couldnt be more pleased...
i have no doubt they would stand behind their products 110%...

 

[Crewdawg445]

Thanks for the great informative feedback fellas. Since this is going to be a first build, I want it done right and with a quality kit. Regarding ease of assembly, how would a Chambers kit rank for a new builder? Experience is everything and I've got what I would call a very good background on fabrication, woodworking and metal work. Just a little nervous!

 

[Vaino]

There aren't any instructions w/ the Chambers' "kits", so some studying of "how to" books is in order. The "good" books contain a numerated building order which is usually for scratch builds, but can be used for a precarve w/ one exception....lock is already partially inletted, but needs to be fitted and 75% "home" as for depth, the touch hole is marked precisely on the bbl flat and then the breech end of the bbl can be inletted and moved back so the TH lines up w/ the pan center.

Any somewhat "handy" guy can do a good job w/ the Chambers, "kits", but for a beginner, at least a 100 hrs are req'd.

A little nervousness is probably a good thing...instills some caution to go slowly.

Good luck.....Fred

 

[Spikebuck]

While still a lot of work, the Chambers kits I have were a bit more refined as sold than the ToW kits I have. But as Fred notes, they are still not a "sand and finish" type of kit.

If you want to see some real specifics of what is involved in a ToW kit, go to the following post of mine. There is a link in there to my Flickr page with very detailed pics and commentary on each of what I am doing. This process is not going to be much different with a Chambers or any other "kit" you truly have to build.

Link to my Fullstock Hawken build post

 

[ryzman]

Hey,
I have found a somewhat intuitive video series on a gentleman's you tube channel... its a tow kit yet same building techniques will apply... he has some pretty good ideas throughout the series and i found it entertaining and intuitive... would i do everything the way he did? no but to see someone build a "kit" really helps you make an informed decision on how you want to complete your build...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivTWnV_rwJ0&list=UUOrzQir9WP9UpH8qtWx_ppw

his videos series is complete... you might have to go to his you tube page and check his uploaded videos to find all of them in succession...

hope that helps...

 

[Crewdawg445]

Loving the replies and first hand experience. I'm liking the fact it really isn't a slap together kit... the fact your own meticulous work will go into the piece, wielding a truly "one of a kind" work of art is what's drawing me to the chamber's kits. I do however love TOTW's website layout, makes things organized and easy to piece together different parts.

 

[54ball]

Chambers offer great kits but for the first time builder, I'm going to recommend a Clay Smith parts set in either the Carolina trade Gun type G or the Early English trade gun.

Link Clay Smith trade guns

Mr. Smith was willing to extra work to the base kit for me like finish setting the barrel, in letting and drilling the lock bolts for extra cost. I elected to just order a finished gun. With Clay Smith you can have the option of any state of completion from kit form to finished, of course any extra work will add to the kit cost.

These trade guns are fun guns and they are simple, as originals.

North Star West offers the NW Gun for a slightly later time period and they too offer a Early English trade gun.

 

[ryzman]

that tow southern mountain rifle doesnt come with a swamped barrel... im guessing it will not balance as well as one with a tapered and flared barrel especially at 42"... reason chambers is the best is they offer Rice barrels that are tapered and flared, chambers locks which are the industry standard, and a reputation in the muzzle loading community that can not be matched... excellent customer service, and you wont be waiting 3 months for parts to come in... tow is know for not having everything in stock...
before you commit, make sure you know exactly what you want... it took me several years to finally decide...
you could always build a lyman gpr... its another highly recommended first build...

 

[Zonie]

Plan on spending at least 120 hours of your time building a rifle.

Almost every piece will need to be filed or sanded.

The wooden stock will have extra wood on all of its surfaces so plan on removing a lot of it.

If you don't know how, you will also need to read up on locating and drilling holes and threading some of them.
The drilling is best done with a drill press but an electric hand drill can be used if your careful.

Knowledge of using a chisel and measuring accurately will be more than useful.

I don't want to frighten you but its best to know what your getting into before you go ahead with your plan.

The biggest thing to remember is to take your time. Don't charge off and do anything without giving it a lot of thought.
If you have any doubts or questions, be sure to ask them here before doing something your not sure of.
If you do, I'm sure you will end up with a gun you will be proud of.

 

[Crewdawg445]

I will certainly look into these! Thank you all for the great advice and insight. It's nice to know a site such as this is available with knowledgeable people who understand and have been there! Looking forward to this build, and Zonie... 120 hours will probably turn into double that! Lol, I'm kind of, well a perfectionist with my rifles and work which is a good thing. Yet it also gets me in trouble with the boss when dinner is ready! I've toyed with the idea of a GPR kit but already have a .54cal flinter I upgraded with an L&R lock. It's a fantastic gun and absolutely beautiful wood once I coated the furniture with a few good coats of linseed oil. To be completely honest... production guns just leave ALLOT to be desired. Having the ability to customize and taylor a firearm for myself and no one else is a rather humbling and religious feeling if that makes any sense. I'm certainly leaning towards a swamped barrel for sure so that indeed shuts the door on the Southern Mtn. kit.

 

[54ball]

As far as Track of the Wolf, Ive studied their offerings for years. By far Track has the best website, period. Believe it or not it used to be even better. Whoever set it up, well Track got their moneys worth.
Track can make a plain Jane kit economy kit look very desirable where as other suppliers with a superior product for the same price but in a confusing format, their product does not have the same appeal, so keep that in mind.

IMHO, by far Tracks best Southern rifle kit.
Link Tracks Early tennessee
I have never cared for their Southern Mountain stock IMHO it's over priced and the Siler kills it for me.

A proper Southern longrifle should have an English lock. While a purist can argue about the Durs Egg, It is English and has that English style. Although an Egg lock may never have been used on an American Rifle, it's much more representative of the type that was, much more so than the Germanic Siler from a earlier time period an region.

Even when L&R was having quality problems a few years ago, the Durs Egg was and has always been one of their better locks.

In the historical context as far as swamped barrels, IMHO they are over done especially for a late flint Southern Gun. A straight barrel is much more historically accurate for a Southern rifle built the first quarter of the 19th Century.

While many of this era had swamped barrels, the swamp was very slight, so slight that some require a caliper to confirm the barrel is indeed swamped. I do love how a swamped barreled gun handles but most of the profiles offered today are really 1770s era.

Seldom do you see a caliber larger than .45 on a 1810s-20s Southern rifle. So most had a heavy long barrel with a smaller bore than most builders build today.

My favorite kit from Track is the Beck.
Link Beck

I just like Becks.
David Keck probably offers the Best Beck. I know he has the best Brass hardware.
Link Knob Mountain

One word of caution with a pre inlet parts set/kit.

The more things that are inlet, the more chance that the inlets may not be in exactly the right place.

This can really complicate the build. So much so that those who build from profiled only stocks or blanks, shy away from some of the cheaper pre inlet kits.
Blank stocks and profiled but no inlet stocks offer a greater measure freedom.

What I'm saying is there is no free pass. A fully inlet stock can as troublesome as a blank.

One advantage to Chambers,David Keck and Clay Smith is they are builders who are also suppliers. Smith presently builds the guns he offers as kits.

Lastly, buy the books/DVDS Dixons, Alexander and Shumway.
Study up
do the research
Study originals
This is a major investment and undertaking so build what you want but go into it informed.

These are my opinions and may not reflect those of others
Good Luck in what ever You decide.

 

[Zonie]

For what it's worth, almost all of the longrifles and my Schutzen were built from kits supplied by Pecatonica River.

They are a good company and have always treated me right.
If for nothing else, it's worth looking at their gun kits and prices to see what's available.

Their kits don't have as many things roughed in as the Chambers kits so they take a little more work.

On the other hand, because they haven't cut mortices for things like sideplates, it gives the builder more latitude in creating the exact gun they want to build.
http://www.longrifles-pr.com/

 

[54ball]

I thought about PR as soon as I finished my post.

Rumor has it that Pecatonica River is the major stock supplier for Track of The Wolf. :wink:

They too would be a good supplier for a first time builder, I just wish they had a better web format.

 

[ryzman]

you gonna hunt with it or is it just for show? what caliber and barrel length do you want? are you planning on packing it around for long distances or just taking it to the range?

 

[Zonie]

I'm sure Dick Greensides at Pecatonica River does supply many of the roughed stocks for several of the other suppliers.

For folks amusement, here is a short video showing Dick's 1929, 24 spindle duplicator in action.

[youtube]9j4Chzn1fQc[/youtube]

 

[Crewdawg445]

Well its done... after much debate and talking back and forth with another member, I found EXACTLY what I'm wanting in a first build. I couldn't really place it all into words, so sometimes you visually just see it and the light bulb illuminates. I was very close to purchasing a Chambers kit, yet certainly will do so once I become hooked on building. Thanks to tlallijr I ordered my first build from TOTW last night. He took their classic golden age kit and turned it into a simple, yet beautiful looking poorboy/ barn gun. This style is perfectly suited to what taste I've been trying to find. I however instead of using brass furniture will be using nothing but a nickel golden era trigger guard and nickel ramrod pipes. Simple and plane jane... I'm also wanting to inlet a large nickel hunters star into the cheek, since my main purpose for this rifle will be hunting. Other than that, nothing fancy! I believe the only "fancy" part will be the Chamber's siler lock, very happy this kit utilizes this piece. I've got three L&R locks that I'm very happy with, they just require ALLOT of finishing work unfortunately. Looking forward to taking this project on, I'm sure it'll yield a great piece! Stay tuned!!!