First Flintlock options

[Marinekayak]

So now that the holidays are over and some gift cards in my pocket I think I am going to treat myself to my first flintlock.
I think I have narrowed my choice to the Cabelas Frontier in .54. I already own a .50 and .58 in percussion and figure why not get the .54. I want a long rifle style rifle since I already own Hawken style percussions. I like the price point of the Cabelas/Pedersoli Frontier. I looked at the Pedersoli Pennsylvania but at that price point I may as well make the jump to a semi custom like TVM or a Kibler kit.
I figure the Cabelas Frontier make a good jumping off point into the Flinter world. My long winded question: Are there any options out there in the Cabelas Frontier price range that I am missing? I stopped by Traditions last week and looked at their Pennsylvania style rifle, it balanced well and looked nice and the price was good (display model) but with its stock geometry I couldn't get my head behind the sight so it was a non starter.
Thanks for any suggestions in advance.

 

[Flintandsteel]

If you can afford it, go for the Kibler. You'll have a REAL flinter that will give a lifetime of shooting pleasure, as well as a family heirloom to hand down to future generations.

 

[Dave Marsh]

I'll second the Kibler kit. I bought the Colonial and it is a great kit to put together. She shoots real good as well. Can't go wrong.

Dave

 

[Pete G]

Buy what you're going to end up with. The Kibler will be cheaper in the end. Use the cards for accessories.

 

[RiverRat]

If you can afford it, go for the Kibler. You'll have a REAL flinter that will give a lifetime of shooting pleasure, as well as a family heirloom to hand down to future generations.

I can't agree more. I examined a Kibler kit at the CLA show in Kentucky and I and saving my nickles for one. His new CNC lock seems like a winner.

 

[Spikebuck]

Looks like the current Cabela's price on the Blue Ridge .54 flinter is $680 and the shipping might be free (not sure if this item qualifies since they don't say until checkout). A base Kibler kit will be $1050 plus shipping, so something over $400 difference.

The Blue Ridge (Frontier) is a good shooting rifle. If you do your part, it will put both PRB or bullets where they need to go. My first "traditionally styled" rifle was the .54 blue ridge. On the negative side, the gun has LOTS of extra wood on it and frankly, an ugly forestock which is held to the barrel with screws. None of this will affect accuracy. It is a bit front heavy because of the straight octagon barrel hanging out front and a pretty light "back end" to the rifle.

The Kibler Colonial kit will require some finishing on your part, but frankly, that's part of the fun. The stock even has some cast-off, so you'll bring the sights in line even faster. It will come with (or should..I'd specifically ask that it does) the new Kibler machined lock that will put the Pedersoli flint lock on the Blue Ridge to shame in long term performance and reliability. It will come with a swamped Rice barrel...A top grade PRB barrel...you will not be able to shoot conicals out of this like your would be able to with the Blue Ridge (Rice does not recommend conicals...round ball only) but that really shouldn't matter as that .54 is going to kill anything you reasonably want with PRB. The balance on the Kibler will be far superior making it more comfortable to aim and shoot. You'll end up with an historically accurate beautiful gun you'll be very proud of and want to keep forever.

Long term, I personally think the Kibler Colonial is well worth the extra $450 above the Frontier/Blue Ridge. If you are at all prone to buying and then later upgrading, just save the money and do the upgrade now. Jim has videos on building these guns on his website, so you can watch before buying to be sure you can do it. But these are near snap together kits, so the "build" shouldn't be a problem for most anyone.

https://www.jimkibler.net/colonial-rifle-kit-gun-specifications.html

Net, the Pedersoli would be a good gun for the price and will shoot well enough (taking all things into consideration, like lock performance and handling/balance, not just accuracy.) I assume you have Cabela's gift cards which helps to offset some of the upfront cost of the Blue Ridge. The Kibler Colonial will be a great gun with the highest quality components and extra good looks and it will also handle and balance and overall perform in a superior fashion. You just have to decide how much that is worth.

 

[hanshi]

I want a Kibler SMR kit; just itching for one. It's a "can't lose" flintlock. A TVM, Pedersoli or Tip Curtis could also park in my garage.

 

[Don Steele]

Trying to be helpful here without goring anybody's ox. Since you have considerable experience already with caplocks it doesn't sound like you're buying a flintlock "on a fling" or starting into traditional muzzleloaders on a whim as a first timer. There's a reason why the "price point" on some guns is where it is and likewise why some others are considerably more. If you're actually going to shoot the thing, and I mean a lot, over time..(not just 10-15 rounds, then clean it up and put it over the fireplace)..the quality components you will get in a Kibler kit or Tip Curtis rifle will more than offset the cost difference over time.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

The Pedersoli Frontier aka the Cabela's Blue Ridge, especially in the slow twist .54 barrel, is a good choice. It is (imho) the best factory made "longrifle" available right now. It has four quirks and a few cosmetic problems of which you should be aware.

It has a patent breech which means you have to be diligent in keeping that clean. It also has a wood screw in the lock plate, forward of the bend of the frizzen spring, which I suppose is because it only uses one lock bolt to secure the lock. This wood screw requires gentle handling when removing and replacing the lock or the wood where the screw grips will become stripped out. Finally it has the standard, Pedersoli, honking-thick front sight post...if you want the full benefit of the sights to get the best accuracy from that barrel, you will need to replace that with a thin front sight post. You will need to replace the wooden ramrod with a proper, straight grained, wooden rammer.

Now as to cosmetics...it has color case hardening on the lock. It has a 19th century buckhorn rear sight. The overall shape of the stock is odd, and it uses the ramrod thimbles also as washers to help secure the barrel. The barrel is browned, and is secured to the stock with two screws instead of pins, and these screws pass through the ramrod thimbles.

So is the Kibler in any of the variations superior? Of Course. The Kibler long rifle(s) are American made by a craftsman. They are also about twice the price. In this case I don't think the Pedersoli is half the value of a Kibler, and I normally think Pedersoli products are overpriced. Like Hanshi, I intend to order a Kibler kit, and hopefully soon. Yet, considering a rifle that can be banged around a bit in the woods and really not lose value, nor cause me emotional distress when I ding it up, and can be shot right out of the box..., the Frontier is not a bad choice.

LD

 

[Ben Meyer]

OP said he has some gift cards, I take that to mean Cabelas gift cards. That changes things. Depending on how many dollars are on cards, I say use them. If it's less than $100, just buy ammo/supplies.

The better guns ARE usually better, and more expensive. Pedersoli's are great shooting guns and a great 1st flintlock. And they make great pricey guns too. I saw one at Friendship this fall that I couldn't believe was a Pedersoli. Of course it was $1400, but still. Beautiful!

 

[Grenadier1758]

I don't think we can put enough emphasis on our observation that if you want a quality shooting experience with a flint lock, its all about the lock. If you intend to shoot a lot or hunt a lot, you want to start your search with the best lock. Today that is a Chambers or Kibler lock. Most barrels will be able to give good to great performance accuracy. Unless all those gift cards are from Cabela's, then, I too, would suggest saving for a Jim Kibler kit.

 

[Critter Getter]

To answer your question, NO there really isn’t any other NEW longrifle options out there that compare favorably with the Pedersoli Blue Ridge ( Frontier). I bought a used unfired .50 Blue Ridge as my first flinter. I like that gun and recommend it as a first flinter. I now own other nicer custom flinters that I like more but are more money. There are some great guns to be had on the used market if you have the patience to wait for them. A great value would be to find a like new used Blue Ridge for your first flintlock!! Greg

 

[Marinekayak]

Thank you all for your input. I love the Kibler kits, but the big thing holding me back now is time to do the build justice and the workspace to do it. After a recent move, space and tools are limited. It seems like the Cabelas frontier is a good choice, Its like, I know that a Ferrari is a nice/better car but my Chevy gets me to work on time too. Thank you again everyone for the input. Whatever I end up with Ill post some pics of groups after I shoot it.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Looking at things from an economic perspective, when you buy the Pedersoli for $680 and use it a bit, you will have a gun worth about $400-$500 used. If you buy the Kibler, by the time you are done (assuming you don't buy any tools, you will have about $1200 in it, plus your time. As a used gun, that gun will be a $1400-$1600 gun as a plain gun, and $2000-$3000 if you decorate it modestly. If you are talented and a master craftsman, it could be a $5000-$8000 gun. Not much difference between new and used as far as pricing goes.

Of course, it's also pretty easy to start buying specialized tools and books and such, and spend another $400-$500 for them, so that's something else to think about. But when it's done and sitting in the rack, nobody thinks much about all the time it took to get there. You will learn a great deal more about the gun and the history of them if you do the build though.

 

[GANGGREEN]

Yeah, like most of the others, I'd suggest to buy a "real" honest to God longrifle like the Kibler if you can manage it (I have an SMR and like it a lot), but this is one case where the less expensive plan isn't a terrible one. My first more or less traditional rifle was a Blue Ridge in .50 caliber. It was reliable, it shot great and to this day it's the gun that I've killed the most deer with ever (including modern rifles). The one quirky thing that I found with it was that it had a particularly strong lock and as such, it ate flints, but they're cheap, who cares? When I had several custom guns (made by myself and a buddy), I chose to sell mine and ended up getting nearly what I had paid for it a decade earlier and I don't think it was a bad choice at all, not even in hindsight.

 

[BruceL]

I'm new to blackpowder shooting and chose the .50cal Kibler Colonial rifle kit and agree with others who have commented about it. The quality of the CNC machining is superb and it has gone together with very little fitting. I'm at the point of sanding and then finishing the stock. Before buying it I watched Jim's You Tube videos which takes you thru all the steps to build one.
I've had a couple of questions and called them. Jim and Katherine have been super to deal with and are very responsive.
Good luck with your decision.

 

[Silvertip8k]

Ok...new guy here on the forum...so i dont want to say or do anything that might be misconstrued here.

Ive been shooting tc's ...hawkens ,senecas and even a renegade since around 1980...always loved them and had lots of success with them too...kits and off the rack

My buddy i shoot with started to get into flintlocks...and im really liking them too...

However there is no way i can put out the big $$ for one of these 800$+ units...

If i got one of those traditions kentucky rifle kits would I find them about what im used to with my old thompsons?

I have the skills to do this im sure...i made seceral tc's and cva'sback in the day...they still do the deal 4 decades lster...i just really want to make a flintlock round ball gun..

Thank you for your response

 

[Loyalist Dave]

If i got one of those traditions kentucky rifle kits would I find them about what im used to with my old thompsons? I have the skills to do this im sure...i made seceral tc's and cva'sback in the day...they still do the deal 4 decades lster...i just really want to make a flintlock round ball gun..

No, I actually think you'd be getting something akin to the previously made, CVA brand kits, not the TC kits. I think for a TC quality level in a kit, that you'd be looking for a Lyman rifle kit. They have variations on Lyman flintlock rifles that are not offered in kit form that are pretty reasonably priced.

LD

 

[Spikebuck]

If i got one of those traditions kentucky rifle kits would I find them about what im used to with my old thompsons?

...i just really want to make a flintlock round ball gun..

Don't forget that Pedersoli also offers kits. They run a little more than the Traditions, but I think would be of better quality. I see Dixie has a number of them for <$600 right now, including the Kentucky model.....

 

[Zonie]

The Lyman Deerstalker is about like the TC's in size and weight and it is available in flintlock.

https://www.lymanproducts.com/deerstalker-rifle

Several places I found it on the web said they were out of stock but if you look around, you can probably find one.