First Gun Build Questions

Well, this wouldn't really be my first gun build, but the first in about 20 years. Back then, I bought a Kentucky/Penn kit from DGW and was able to "slap" it together... but it looked like it was slapped together.

I always wanted a mountain rifle... I love the simplicity of the frugal nature of them.

With that in mind, and knowing that my skills are not that of someone who could just take a blank of wood and shape it and make everything fit, what recommendations could y'all offer me?

DGW used to sell a Tenn Mountain rifle (of Jap origin I believe) but that is no longer offered. Track of the Wolf I see has something, but it looks like I might have a good deal of shaping to do (not sure).

Anyhow, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

John
Perry, Ohio

 

[kaintuck]

welcome aboard john, readreadread...lots of great books about this hobby. TVM or TOTW kits....1st one will give you great results when care is taken on working the fit together.
patience is the key.......

 

TVM???

Are there any good books that would help?

 

[Col. Batguano]

TOTW sells several basic books;
Recreating the American Long Rifle
Building the Pennsylvania Long Rifle
Gunsmiths of Glenville County

Then you can get in to carving, engraving, and the shooting stuff.

 

Okay, I get the book stuff and I have a copy of Recreating the American LR on order, but what should I be looking for in a kit? Should I buy a complete kit, or would I be okay in starting to buy the parts. Stock, Lock and Barrel to start with and then the others to go with it as I get the funds available.

 

[Birddog6]

Why not take a day & drive over to Log Cabin in Lodi, OH and take a look at their rifle kits. May be well worth the drive for ya.

If going to just order one without seeing in In Hand, order one from Pecatonica & tell Dick you want it with No Lock Inlet, use a Chambers Ketland modified to look like Tenn. lock. Most of the kits ya see are using a Siler lock on them & it is not the correct looking lock for a Tenn. or Southern rifle. Get all the parts from the same place, that way ya know they will work for that rifle.

Keith Lisle

 

Thanks Keith, but how hard is it to inlet a lock? My skills are not quite that good and it has been over 20 years since I did my last gun which was just a Dixie kit. No serious inletting on that build.

Also, I don't think the Log Cabin SHoppe has any Tenn or mountain style rifles. Maybe I'm wrong. It's been a few years since I visited that place. Really a fun store to visit... great idea though.

John

 

[jdkerstetter]

The Log Cabin Shop has Tennessee (Southern Mountain) style precarve stocks, they call it their Tennessee Mountain Stock. I believe they are from Pecatonica River but maybe not.

Here's a link: http://www.logcabinonline.com/index1.html

These are not listed under "kits" on their on-line catalog but under "Custom Rifle & Pistol Components" as these are not "kits" as you are accustomed to but rather "componet sets". They are not as straight forward as most kits and require more work and skill to assemble.

They do offer their Tennessee Mountain stock inlet for the Manton lock which is appropriate for a Southern gun and also the Siler...which is not.

I have built a gun on this stock as purchased in their store and it will require you to take a lot of wood off to make a correct rifle. You will benefit from the books and research and it would be helpful to have someone to guide you through the build who is accustomed to this kind of work....at least the first time.

Good luck and enjoy, J.D.

 

[hoochiepapa]

Just tryin' to be helpful...
There are gunmakers that offer complete guns "in the white" THat you finish yourself. Everything is inletted, and fit, all you do is finish the wood and metal to your tastes.
Who are they? Some one else can tell you, I don't know.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Tip Curtis is one who offers nice "in-the-white" guns...assembled but not finished. I have handled his and the quality seems first rate.

There is still a lot of wood removal to do to attain proper architecture but they are a nice start.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the advice. Does Tip have a website?

I have been seriously looking at the TVM an the Pecatonica rifles. In talking with TVM, they are telling me that it is a fairly straight forward build. No cutting or serious carving for the butt plate is my biggest concern as I have no idea how I would do that just yet (the book should be here early next week and then I can study up).

Also, thanks on the tip with regards to the Locks. I didn't know Siller was not period for the Tenn rifle. Glad I found out now.

As far as finding someone to help me... well, I don't think there are any folks in this neck of the woods that I know of who could/would do that. I would love that if I knew someone.

John

 

[jdkerstetter]

You want to find your way back to the Log Cabin Shop. Give 'em a call as they host a builders' workshop every month or so on a Saturday. Guys can bring their projects there and work on 'em and get hands-on advice from some very experienced builders....I know Ian Pratt frequents these. Heck, you may even meet somebody there who is from your neck of the woods or knows someone who is.

I would also suggest you buy your parts there. I don't think they would care but it just doesn't seem kosher to buy elsewhere and then go there for help. Besides, none of those other outfits is going to sell you anything you can't get at the Log Cabin and there you will get one on one customer service. You are really lucky to have a place like that just an hour and half away.

The hardest thing to do is to excersize patience between seminars so you don't get in trouble. The important thing is to stop when you run into a problem until you get adice or have worked out the solution.

Good luck and enjoy, J.D.

 

Great advice JD. It is a great place too. I bought a bunch of my early black powder stuff from them and they helped me make my first powder horn.

I was just looking up info on Tip Curtis, and my Wife and I were just returning from Memphis last week and drove about 5 miles from his shop. Damn!

The other plus side of Log Cabin is I won't have to pay shipping and I can see what I am getting before I buy it (very important with the stock if you ask me).

Tell me though, will the Recreating the American Longrifle tell me everything (well, almost everything) I need to know/see to do this project? Will I be able to tell how how it will be to inlet a lock, fit the buttplate to the stock, etc? My biggest challenge is going to be patience. I once had a family friend tell me to build a model ship to learn patience. Being the dumb a** I am, I went out a bought a ship in a bottle, and cursed a swore at the thing and eventually threw it across the room. I think I have calmed down a lot since then, but I know I'm going to want to get it done NOW is going to be a huge issue for me. I need to set my expectations that it is going to take a long time.

On another note, one of my best friends Dad is an expert craftsman. He built his son (my best friend) a beautiful long rifle a few years back. The guy can work magic with his hands and also used to be a wood carver and sign maker back in the day. If I got into some really sticky issues, I'm sure I could look him up and see if he could help me out.

John

 

[straightcut]

I'm in the process of reading The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle available from Dixon Muzzleloading Shop. I own a copy of Recreating the American Longrifle. Having a two or three resource books is always useful. I'm very much enjoying the first book and the illustrations are excellent - it definitely covers inletting locks, triggers, buttplate, etc. very well - I highly recommend this book.

 

[mikemeteor]

My biggest challenge is going to be patience. I once had a family friend tell me to build a model ship to learn patience. Being the dumb a** I am, I went out a bought a ship in a bottle, and cursed a swore at the thing and eventually threw it across the room. I think I have calmed down a lot since then, but I know I'm going to want to get it done NOW is going to be a huge issue for me. I need to set my expectations that it is going to take a long time.
John

The first step is admitting you have a problem.

Do not disregard all the advice you see on this forum to go slow and think things through. And ask questions. And be prepared to learn to fix mistakes rather than let them be a show-stopper. There will be mistakes. Part of the journey.
/mike

 

[hoochiepapa]

Perry, I, too, have no patience. When I feel the anger coming on, I put down my tools, walk away, and sometimes don't come back until the next day.
Just takes a little will power. :v

 

Thanks all. I think the thing that scares me the most is screwing up the stock. On my first build 20 years ago, I really screwed up the plate that goes on the back of the gun where the lock gets bolted too. I have often wondered how one goes about fixing something as horrible as this was. I filled it in will wood filler and tried to stain it (not) and it looks really bad.

What would you all do if you had a 1/4" - 1/2" gap around the plate? Don't ask how I did that (I honestly doen't even remember) but it might be a good skills test to try and fix before I start the Tenn rifle.

Thanks,

John

 

[jdkerstetter]

A couple of options; make a larger side plate or shave down the side panel and glue matching wood to it and reshape and re-inlet. There are many original guns with patches covering mistakes or natural flaws in the wood.

I bet more than a few original flintlocks that were converted to smaller percussion locks had new lock panels glued on and new mortises cut.

Good glue joints, especially at transition points, can be almost inperceptable. The trick is to use tight fitting pieces of wood and not fillers. No worries.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Birddog6]

What would you all do if you had a 1/4" - 1/2" gap around the plate? Don't ask how I did that (I honestly doen't even remember) but it might be a good skills test to try and fix before I start the Tenn rifle. Thanks, John

I would buy another stock & start over, if I had a inlet that bad. Just bite the bullet, you did a major screw up, get over it & don't do it again.

I put the wrong lock in a rifle one time. Sounds stupid, but easy to do when you get distracted & have 4-5 locks laying there with your build, & I started messing with locks, when I should have been concentrating on the Build ! It was OK for another build, but NOT OK for that build as that is not what the guy ordered. So I set it aside & started that guys build all over with all the correct parts again & put all the other stuff away. :idunno: Good lesson learned.

Most of the Newbie screwups I have seen on building rifles have been because the guy got in a hurry & used power tools, like dremels. You can screw up more with a dremel in 5 min than you can fix in 2 weeks ! :shake:

If you are in a hurry, you are in the wrong place. Hurry here will cost you allot of grief & money.

Building a rifle doesn't take a rocket scientist, as if it did there would only be maybe one guy on this forum building them. But it does take a lil common sense & a LOT of patience.

Keith Lisle

 

[Birddog6]

I was just looking up info on Tip Curtis, and my Wife and I were just returning from Memphis last week and drove about 5 miles from his shop. Damn! John

You may have drove right past the best part of your trip. He has more ML parts there than any place you will most likely ever visit, rifles on 2-3 benches being built, Dozens of rifles In-The-White to look at, shoulder, admire, & a super guy to visit. Since I have been there umpteen times in many years, I can usually get out of there in a hour. But for many years min. stop time was 4 hours. ha ha ! Really worth stopping by & if you are within a days drive it is well worth the drive.

Keith Lisle