First Gun Build Questions

Actually, no I haven't. Besides, if I am doing an octagonal barrel, is there a router bit for that? I'm not all that familiar with the router bits. I have a router, but I think I have used it only twice in 20 years.

 

I guess this begs a good question. What tools should I have to start with? Generically, I would think some chisels (not sure the sizes) and some rasps. What else?

 

[jdkerstetter]

Don't worry about it. I don't know where you got the idea that Track's precarves are not pre-inlet for barrels....they are. They may be a little tight so you may have to do some scraping. Other than that all that is left to do is inlet the breach end and tang on the barrel as the channel is usually left round where the channel cutter exits.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

JD, just that one that you listed above was non inlet. Look at this page (which os the link after you go to your link) and look at the stock area. It says " [STK-LE-15-M1] Stock, H. E. Leman Trade Rifle, pre shaped, non-inlet 15/16" octagon, 42" barrel, plain maple"

Most of the other Track guns are inlet, so I'm not too concerned about that. For the second rifle, I might try to do the inletting for the barrel, but not for the first.

 

[bioprof]

When they say non-inlet, they mean that the lock isn't inlet. If you still aren't sure, give them a call.

 

[jdkerstetter]

That's right, non-inlet for lock...which they offer as an option. When it says 15/16" they are referring to the barrel the channel is inlet for.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

Thanks guys... I didn't realize that. All good stuff.

 

[crockett]

The best source on the trade rifle would be a booklet sold by the Museum of the Fur Trade - the trade rifle sketch book- it has full sized patterns for various trade rifles (stock, patch boxes, trigger guards, etc). TOW and Dixie Gun Works may also sell the book/booklet. It's about 30 pages and only costs about $8.

 

[crockett]

And..on some of the other questions.... You can use a router, you can use a special bit but remember that with a router you can only remove about 1/8" of wood on each pass so even with a special octagon bit you'll have to do multiple passes. SO...I've had pretty good results just using a 45 degree V bits and a template I made. You make one pass and do both sides and across the middle to create a flat bottom. Eventually you eat down into the wood which creates the side portions of the barrel channel if that makes sense. Even with a router I have not yet figured out how to get a square end near the breech plug so you'll still have to use chisels. You can get a 3 chisel set from Sears for about $10 and grind down the widths to whatever flats you need. There are also dogleg chisels sold by Woodcrafters but that's a luxery, plain old chisels work fine. In either case you can take a plain old 2x6 piece of wood and cut plenty of practice channels. On the router- You need to make a full length clamp of dressed lumber that is aligned with solid pins and clamp on either side of the stock and then screw the template into the top of the clamp. It's a lot of work but if you are good with a router- it can potentially make for a very good result.
Another trick. If you use chisels- Use Elmer's glue (not waterproof) and glue strips of sandpaper to the bottom of the barrel and also strips on the underside inclined flats (this does not work with a swamped barrel- it must be straight) Use the barrel itself as a sanding block. When the sand paper wears out wet it to remove and glue in new strips. The sanding makes things look better although I am told by those that examined original guns that the barrel channels were often rather rough.

 

Loved the sandpaper tip Crockett!

Okay, so I'm going to do what JD said a while back... head over to Log Cabin shop and get my stuff there. I think I am only going to get the stock, barrel, breech and lock this weekend. That should keep me busy for quite some time.

The one thing I don't have is many woodworking hand tools. What would be a good setup to get me going? I know I need some chisels, possible a rasp, etc... but what would be practical? I hope to get the 90% inlet stock, so I won't have to do the full barrel channel (I'll try that next time maybe), but I know I will need to clean it up. So what should I be looking for?

Thanks,

John

 

Never mind on the list of tools... I found a post a little while back that has a nice discussion.

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/268901/post/1148328/hl/tools/fromsearch/1/#1148328

 

[jdkerstetter]

I think I am only going to get the stock, barrel, breech and lock this weekend.

Pick up triggers too. Most Southern Mountain Rifles use set triggers almost exclusively. Leman used a simple single most often.

I know you were posting about swamped barrels earlier in this sting but you are more than likely going to end up going with a staight in a pre-inlet stock. A straight barrel is appropriate for either style. I don't know your caliber preference but a 13/16" (across the flats) in .45 is about as light as they get and handle good. Second choice for handling would be a 7/8" .50....target guys usually perfer a little heavier but they do become somewhat unwieldly in the longer 42" length.

What ever you decide, try the barrel in the stock inlet before you purchase it as most times the channels run small. You still will have some work to do and Crocket taught you some tricks.

It may not be likely to get one off the rack with the lock inlet. Call ahead and see what they offer and if they don't stock 'em that way you can ask to have it done or do as most others do and do it yourself. It's not that tough, saves you money and you can make sure it will be exactly where you want it. Sometimes perinlet locks back you into a corner....so I've heard.

Take your time....time is your friend....and enjoy. J.D.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Before you go to Lodi put Jerrow's inletting black on your list.

Scrapers are what I turn ton most often when shaping and inletting. I recently picked up this set on sale and found them very useful: http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2...arver-profile-scraper-set-w-power-handle.aspx

These are my old standby's and the ones I turn to most often: http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-...nd-tools/wood-scrapers/scrapers-prod6521.aspx

You can make your own scapers too and will end up doing so at some point. Old hand saws from yard sales and flee markets make good scrapers and are cheap.

Invest in some quality files too. Ebay has many good deals on these.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[don hepler]

Hey John in Perry Ohio

How far are from Cross Plains Tenn.? Tip Curtis has inletted kits that are the best I've seen. He is very helpful and knowledgeable.

I bought a late Virginia rifle kit from him and the swamped Colrain barrel was inletted, and the Siler lock and trigger was inletted. You'll pay a little more, but you'll get a lot more.

Just throwing one more name, before you get started.

I need to learn to post pics. A picture is worth a thousand words.

 

Hey JD... okay, I'll pick up the triggers too. Not much more for those. I was going to hold off on those, but in reading the book Recreating the AL, I know I will need them to get everything all lined up.

Inletting black is also on my list (as are a few tools... chisels I was thinking mostly, but will also see what they have in Lodi)

I already called the Log Cabin yesterday and they do have a curly (+2) stock there that is inlet for the Manton lock. I'm planning on getting that if it is still there. I wanted to get a .45 Cal, but they didn't have that in stock, but they do have a .50 (7/8"). I was going to do that in 42". I have a .45 in that length and thickness, and it is heavy, but I really like the longer gun.

Haden, Tip is quite a distance from me. I'm in the north east corner of Ohio. The funny thing is my wife and I drove through White House TN, about two weeks ago returning from Memphis. I wish I had known about Tip back then as that would have been a fun side trip.

So what is the purpose of the scraper? Is it more for the barrel channel? Is it used as opposed to a chisel or with a chisel? Also, in getting a chisel(s), what is the best size to get to start with? 1/4"? Should I get a set of mixed typed (e.g. concave, flat, V-shaped, etc) or would just one that is flat suffice to start with? Woodcraft is on the way there and back, so that's great for me.

Thanks all,

John

 

[jdkerstetter]

So what is the purpose of the scraper? Is it more for the barrel channel? Is it used as opposed to a chisel or with a chisel? Also, in getting a chisel(s), what is the best size to get to start with? 1/4"? Should I get a set of mixed typed (e.g. concave, flat, V-shaped, etc) or would just one that is flat suffice to start with? Woodcraft is on the way there and back, so that's great for me.

Scapers are like the micro planes of the wood working world. You will not just use them in the barrel chanel but in all the final shaping of the stock. Proper scrapers will allow you to shave off small curls of wood.

Heavy chisels and gouges are used primarily in the initial shaping of a stock from a rough blank/block of wood so you will have no need of them with a precarve.

Most of the carving tools you mentioned are for carving. If you aren't going to do any decorative carving you can skip most of them. Woodcraft is the place to go for those and in any build a minimum that I would want to have is a gouge that has a cutting profile that matches the nose of the lock I am using...makes it easier to intlet. A couple of gentle sweep gouges like #2 and #3 in the half inch range and some straights....good bench chisels will suffice for the heavy stuff.

I would also be lost without a small back saw, for cutting in under the cheek piece, and a coping saw and extra blades.

The number one and two tools for shaping though have to be the Nicholson #49 and #50 Cabinet Maker's Rasp. Though some perfer micro-planes. A half round cabinet/wood file is a must too.

A solid work bench and a good vise and the proper screwdrivers with blades that fit the slots properly will go a long way too. And don't forget the Exacto knives and sharp blades.

I am sure there are other things I am leaving out right now but that's a start.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Oh yeah, you will need a couple taps to tap the holes to secure your lock and triggers.

8-32 and 10-32 are the most common and you will need the appropriate drill bits and a tap handle.

If you don't have them already here is an economical set that contains them: http://www.sears.com/craftsman-13-pc-tap-set/p-00952068000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

You will also need a basic set of smaller drill bits to drill pin holes and pilot holes.

Enjoy, J.D.

 

[jdkerstetter]

Measuring tools

A good flexible metal rule is handy. You can't build anything without the proper measuring tools.

You need a good small square. Dial calipers are almost required though other tools can be made to work.

At Sears in the measuring tool section they have a line of General or Central Tool, something like that, that has all of this kind of stuff relatively cheap and they hold up well.

Good luck, J.D.

 

I know I won't need this for some time, but what about a dovetail cutting jig for the sights and the underlugs?

 

Scapers are like the micro planes of the wood working world. You will not just use them in the barrel chanel but in all the final shaping of the stock. Proper scrapers will allow you to shave off small curls of wood.

So with a chisel, you push it to remove wood, but with a scraper do you pull it to remove?