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first gun - flint or percussion?

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I am seriously considering buying a muzzleloader because I think it would be a lot of fun (I already hunt with a centrefire rifle and a homemade longbow). I think I would prefer a caplock over a flintlock, but I am not quite sure why (lots of hunting in wet weather, maybe). Do any of you have some input for me in deciding what might be best?
Thanks
 
todd potiphar said:
I am seriously considering buying a muzzleloader because I think it would be a lot of fun (I already hunt with a centrefire rifle and a homemade longbow). I think I would prefer a caplock over a flintlock, but I am not quite sure why (lots of hunting in wet weather, maybe). Do any of you have some input for me in deciding what might be best?
Thanks
My suggestion would be start with a caplock...there's a lot to learn getting started into muzzleloading without compounding the learning curve by adding in flint lock ignition, in my opinion.

A good clean used mass produced rifle like a .50 or .54cal TC Hawken would be a good starting point....and really might want to give the nod to the .54cal with the size of those big deer you have up there :grin:
 
The two guns are only similar in that they shoot round balls and use Black Powder. They are otherwise different firing systems. Your choice of action is totally dependent on your actual level of interest, and willingness to learn how to make each type of gun shoot well. When I joined a BP rifle club more than 30 years ago, there were only two members who occasionally brought flintlocks to the range to shoot the matches. All the rest of the men shot percussion guns. I did not own a rifle at the time, so I was trying to learn as much as possible about bot kinds before making MY decision, similar to the one you are asking for help in making today.

I talk and shot a lot of the guns, and talked to the flint shooters, about how they loaded, prepared the gun for firing, knapped their flints, and why, etc. and got mixed answers. A sale came along on an imported percussion gun, so I bought one just to begin somewhere, and get shooting. The gun was poorly made, but that got me into learning how to fix them and make them shoot well.

Several years later, a new man joined the club, who was a black Powder gunsmith and gun maker, but he specialized in Flintlocks, and really didn't know much about percussion locks. We swapped information and he converted a new rifle I had from Percussion to flint. In the next three years, virtually all the club members bought flintlocks, simply because Don was there to answer questions and teach us how to get them to go off reliably, and quickly. We actually held a monthly shoot where there was no one shooting a percussion rifle!

If you don't have a mentor, like I had my friend, Don, then you are going to have to rely on places like this to get the answers to your questions, regardless of which action type you choose.

Understand that Black Powder is addictive. Once you begin shooting one gun, it is only a matter of time before you are dragged surely, and swiftly into the gates of that living hell where life just is not worth living unless you can smell the smoke of Black powder recently fired! You will buy more guns. You will wnat custom made guns, and you will do whatever is needed to acquire them. And you will be like all the rest of us here. So, welcome. We can always stand new company.

Paul
 
Todd..Defintiely buy a percussion gun..!.....then in jes a lil bit you'll definitely buy a flintlock.....good news is then you'll have two! like paul said it's addictive..very addictive and ya can't have too many.......buy perc. now...buy flint later...happy hapy man,ya see life's about choices,,,once you buy both... you then have a choice! good luck and welcome! RC
 
You are in Canada.

Canadian law reguards caplocks as regular firearms, flint is not regulated. Another government intrusion.

If that makes any difference to you.
 
I'd say it depends on how much you like to mess with stuff. If you like to tinker with things then go ahead and get the flinter. If you hate messin' with stuff get the caplock. The "homemade longbow" kinda gives me the idea you'd be the flintlock type. :hmm:

Most likely you'll soon end up with 2 or more anyway just like Paul and RC said. It is addictive.
I have a stack of 'em. :youcrazy:
 
ghost makes a good point about gun regulations. My question is this, though: how impossible is it to hunt with a flint in damp weather?
 
You are not going to shoot much flintlocks standing in a waterfall, or a monsoon. But then, you aren't going to have anything to shoot at in those weather conditions, either!

It takes knowledge, and know how, but flintlocks can be used in rainy weather. We tuck the rifle up under our arms, and under a poncho if we wear one, to keep the flashpan, and touch hole dry as we can. We cover the muzzle with an oiled piece of leather, tied to the barrel, or tape if we are going modern, to keep the barrel dry and water away from the powder charge. We plug the touch hole, and at least one good idea that recently has been suggested here is to put a cloth cleaning patch soaked in alcohol in the flashpan, under the frizzen, with part of it between the barrel and frizzen, so that the cloth acts as a wick, and as the alcohol evaporates it will draw moisture out of the barrel through the vent ( touch hole). You prime when you hear something coming, and use the same powder that is down the barrel to prime. The larger granules do not absorb moisture and water as quickly as the finer granules of 4Fg priming powder.

I killed a wild boar with my flintlock on a rainy, hot, muggy, Labor Day weekend in Tennessee, using my .50 flintlock. I did have to work to keep the pan and flint and frizzen dry, but I even primed with 4Fg priming powder and it fired.

So, yes, you can shoot a flintlock in rainy conditions. You just have to take a few extra steps to keep your powder dry.

Hunting in the rain is often a good idea, as the deer will be up and moving to feed, and the rain hides both your scent, and any sounds you make moving through the woods even from the huge radar ears of a whitetail deer. I have seen a lot of deer moving around in the rain when I have been stand hunting. More so than when its sunny and bright outside.
 
Oh, I have seen them. I haven't hunted mule deer, but I have seen them. Again, that is why hunting in the rain can take that advantage away from the deer. Now, if you move through the woods like a bulldozer, a blind deaf and dumb mouse can hear you. What so many people forget is that the bottom of the hooves of deer are like those of cows, and horses, only smaller. The outer edge of the toe nail is hard, but the inside is soft. The deer use that soft portion to feel vibrations through the ground. That is how they often are first alerted to something moving around them, long before the head comes up, and those ears turn until they hear an audible( to them) sound in the distance. Hunters have to learn to walk softly. Most don't.

To enhance your senses, take your shoes off, and walk barefoot. After you get used to avoiding sticks, stones, and other things that can hurt your feet, try it wearing a blind fold, and follow a course that has a rope strung from one tree to another. By blinding you, you force your brain to use your other senses, and you will very shortly begin to hear so much better, smell and taste better, and, of course, feel so much more with your hands and feet. You will also learn to move slowly, and quietly in the woods, doing a Fox Walk, where you unlock both knees so you can feel the ground with your forward foot for sticks and stones, and stickers, while your weight remains on your back foot. When you find a spot that you can safely put that forward foot down, you will learn to put it down straight, and flat, so that anything that is under foot and will snap, crush, or break will produce very small sounds that are actually muffled by your own foot.

Compare that to shuffling through the forest turf, wearing both workboots, and overshoes, or wearing waders, and busting through brush instead of staying to worn game trails.

If you have a long way to go to get where you want to hunt, you are going to want to get there quickly, before daylight in most cases. Just stick to worn game trails, and take the time to trim off branches along the way that would otherwise strike you, or rub against you on your way into the stand in the dark. It can save you some nasty scratches. When you get within 200 yds( 600 feet!) of where you want to be, that is when you want to stop for awhile, wait for the forest noises to quiet- as most are alerting everything else that some freight train is coming through the living room( YOU!), and then quietly switch to the fox walk to cover those last 200 yds.

If it is raining, it really does hide the noise. Most deer- even mule deer, will stay in their beds until its daylight during a rain, because their ears are their primary defense system, as your eyes are yours. They wait for daylight before getting up and moving. They also seem conscious of changes in barometric pressure, as all animals are, and I have seen whitetails stay in their beds until midmorning when the rain stopped before getting up and finding a meal. If you see that kind of behavior during your scouting, (pre-hunt), you might was well stay until later on those rainy nights, before going to your stand, and not have to sit in the rain for 2 or 3 hours while the deer get a few more hours sleep, before they move.

All deer tend to bed down in localized places that are out of the wind. By enhancing your other senses, you can be more attuned to feeling those places where the wind is not so bad. With less wind, their ears work better. Of course, in a steady down pour, deer just have to wait it out, as the spattering of raindrops makes noise enough all around them either hitting leaves in trees, or hitting the ground that they either can't really hear much with their ears, or they can't hear much through their feet, until it gets really close.

Good hunting.
 
Go with a percussion gun first then move to a flinter when you think you are ready for a greater challenge.
 
I recommend you start with a perc, also, as everyone I know pretty much did. I still use both, so you can always have the cap gun as a backup or in times when it is raining. I use a perc during regular gun season and reserve my flinter for the better (sunny) days and for true m/l season. There are things you can do to protect and cover a flinter, but in the real, 6AM to 5PM soaking rainy days a cap gun is the one to use.

Flinters also cost more, and 'till you know this is for you it's a less expensive entry into the sport.

Too bad T/C discontinued the New Englander. There was a decent kit (I think mine was $180 for the shotgun kit) that could make up a fine shotgun AND an excellent rifle with the swap of a barrel. A perc shotgun is just the funnest firearm ever for bunnies and grouse. I carried that in .50 rifle for most of our regular season this year. I'd recommend that for a first m/l for anyone and then a flint rifle if the spark was lit.

You could start with a flinter, but don't go cheap or you'll be miserable. That's the problem with flinters. The lock requires more skill to design and build/install/time than a perc, and skill costs money.
 
How come a lot of cap owners, sooner or later buy Flinters?

Yet very few, if any Flinters ever buy caps guns?

Makes you go hmmmm?

BTW A cap gun is NOT better, only faster to load the cap. Flint actions are just as fast firing, if not faster (well mine is).

Id advise hooking up with your local rondy club, or friends that have each, and let some lead fly.

Then you will know which you prefer.
 
Thank you, Johnny Tremain, for a well reasoned answer. I am definitely leaning toward a flint, as long as I can find one at the right price.
 
I respectfully disagree with those that advise to get a capgun first, especially if you really want a flinter. It is not that hard to learn a flintlock, especially with a resource like this forum. I personally have never owned a caplock, and did not have any difficulty learning the flinter. It was before forums like this were available, and it took some trial and error, but that just added to the fun.

In my humble opinion, if you think that you ultimately want a flint lock, you will never be happy with the caplock, and will feel like you have wasted your money getting it first. Other opinions will vary.
 
Put me in the Percussion column, Todd. If you're in the position of teaching yourself about Muzzleloading, as I was, you'll want to keep it simple. The percussion gun is as simple a frontloader as you'll find. Once you've got your act together in terms of cleaning, swabbing, loading, and maintaining a clear flash channel it'll be time to consider the flintlock. You'll know this has happened when you're getting accuracy comparable to your centerfires and you can't remember the last time your cap gun misfired.

If you've got a friend who shoots a flintlock and is willing to take you under his wing, it might be different. Remember, back in the day the people who shot flinters usually grew up in households where flintlocks were in common use. By the time someone was old enough to shoot, they were well aware of the nuances in a flinter's care and feeding and/or had several people at hand who could bail them out.

Nothing can spoil a session at the range faster than a load that has to be pulled because it won't fire....and, being new to muzzleloading AND flinters, you won't know whether your cleaning/swabbing/loading technique is at fault or if it's your management of the ignition system.

Plus, if real Black Powder is hard to find in your area, the cap guns handle the substitutes with ease. Not so the flinters...or at least that's the word here on the forum.

For me, K.I.S.S. = Percussion
FWIW
Bob
 
I am going to swim against the tide also.

If you want a flint lock go buy one.

Is a flintlock tougher to dial in -

YES - A little so what!!!

It is part of the deal - The real deal

The secrets to success with BP (cap or flint) are the same:

1.Go slowly

2.Pay Attention

3.Consistancy

4.Keep it clean

5.Trial and error

It is just not that hard.

Back in the day - PRE_INTERNET - I might agree with start with the cap lock (Information was hard to come by).

But gents this is the new millennia

You can take your laptop to the range and within seconds get in touch with HUNDREDS of folks who are glad to help you out if you get in a jam.

It just isn't that hard. If it gets a little frustrating at times - SO WHAT.

It is what makes this whole thing cool.

I am surprised no one has recommended to get an in-line as a transition weapon. Not that I am recommending one BUT as an entry level cap gun they make more sense.

They feel like a rifle.
They shoot like a rifle.
They are not intimidating.
You can learn loading and cleaning technique
just the same.

So why not get an in-line to start?

Reason = They SUCK

If you want to get started -

Call Midsouth

Order a Lyman flint GPR in .54.

Get a few good books.

Keep your Accessories to a bare minimum

Start with light loads and go shoot.

It is not that hard and we all will help you.

Sorry this got so long BUT if you want a flinter I vote to go get one

I just have never understood the reasoning that if you want a Chevy - go buy a Ford and get used to it -

Just one mans opinion

Good Luck
 
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