First Muzzleloader Rifle

[michaelt]

I am loving this site! So much great information and reasonable folks!

I am looking to buy my first muzzleloading rifle and think that I would like either a Lyman GPR or Uberti Santa Fe Hawkin in 54 caliber. I am interested in opinions of those that have actualy owned either or both of these rifles. Which has the better fit/finish, which is likely to be more durable and are spare parts easily available for either or both of these? Are there other rifles that I should consider in the same price range? So many questions! Help!!

 

[BrownBear]

I've only owned the GPR 54. If you need comparisons, you probably need someone who owns both. Nothing but praise for the GPR from fit to finish, from accuracy to reliability. I'm hard on guns cuzz I use them lots in the field. Never anything but smiles.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

All parts for Lyman are available and their warranty service is very good. The GPR and trade rifles have been around for many years and are popular enough that lots of aftermarket accessories are made for them. The Uberti was made for some years, then discontinued, then revived again. Who knows how long it will be around this time, so ten years down the trail you may have trouble getting parts or service. Take note of Mike2005's search for a mainspring for an older SantaFe.
The Uberti is styled a bit more like a true Hawken than is the Lyman, but since neither one is exactly there, how much is "closer" really worth? You could get a custom built Hawken for not much more than the Uberti. I guess I'd say go with the GPR as a first rifle, you won't have any regrets and if you find you are really "into" this muzzleloading thing then you might add a custom at some point down the way.

 

[shmrck1]

I'm with the others...For the money it's hard
to beat the Lyman GPR. I also have a couple
Investarms hawkens from Cabela's that I like
also.
snake-eyes :hmm:

 

[bramble]

The way you say "first rifle" causes me to wonder if you plan to move up later or add more, both a common affiction with this bunch. I have a TC Hawken from a kit. The cost was low, I enjoyed the process, and the rifle shoots great.
bramble

 

[MikeChapin]

I have a Santa Fe that has been around for 20 years and still shoots great. I have a lot of friends that have Lyman GPRs. Both rifles shoot great and both are authentic looking with the edge going to the Santa Fe.

If I was to recommend one or the other I would recommend the Lyman. It is about $100 cheaper than the Uberti but the major reason is not the price. Last weekend I broke the mainspring in my Santa Fe. I had a devil of a time trying to find a replacement. I thought I was going to have to modifications to some other lock springs to make one fit. I did find a place to get the part but who knows how long those will be available.

You won't have that problem with the Lyman. They have been around for years and look like they will be around a lot more. Parts are available and will be for a long time.

 

[cowpoke1955]

My first rifle was a Lyman GPR. The quality, durability, price and customer service is outstanding. Had mine for over 25 years and it's still going strong. The guys are right. This will not be your only rifle. They are habit forming. I just ordered me second GPR. This time as a flinter kit. Shop around online. You can find some great deals. If you are good with your hands, you may consider a kit and save even more money. Just something to think about. Good luck.

 

[renovato]

I haven't owned or shot the Santa Fe Hawken, but it sure is a great looking gun and has me tempted also. I do own a GPR though and it's an outstanding gun. Great quality all around, accurate, reliable and durable. It would make a great first gun, or tenth gun! It would be my recommendation to start with because it won't let you down.

 

[Robert58]

Where are did you find a Uberti Hawken, new. I thought they quiet making them.

The only new rifles that I know of are the Lyman GPR and the Pedroseli Rocky Mountain Hawken. That are close to a real Hawken.

Robert

 

[Catof9tails]

Lyman is hard to beat IMO. I think Cowpoke said it all when he stated it will not be your only purchase. I started out with the Lyman 50 GPH model, then 54 Cabelas Hawken, then TC 50 Cougar Hawken, and the Traditions 32 Crocket.

I did have some rear sight problems with Lyman, but insalled a stronger spring under the sight to keep it from moving. There are other methods to solve that problem and sure someone will chime in on how they overcome the rear sight moving.

If you have a chance to shoot a variety of ML, maybe that will help you decide.

Probably not much help, but best of luck in your decision.
Cat9

 

[Headhunter]

There has to be a black sheep, so I will jump in there on this one. The GPH is an awesome looking rifle and is a great one BUT......

Do not forget about the Thompson Center line. Although they are a little higher, They are good to go. Warranty is awesome. Lots of accessories.

If you find one with a little experience, you can save some money.

I like the Renegades.

Headhunter

 

[CoyoteJoe]

I did have some rear sight problems with Lyman, but insalled a stronger spring under the sight to keep it from moving. There are other methods to solve that problem and sure someone will chime in on how they overcome the rear sight moving.
Cat9

Yep, this is by no means a "Lyman" issue. The adjustable rear sights on T/C and T/C clones are the worst. Replace them with fixed, non-adjustable sights at the first opportunity, many match rules require such anyhow.
My friend, Greenmountainboy, guider a hunter into easy range of an elk only to have the shot go over the elk's back. Second elk, same result. Put the rifle on paper and found it was shooting 18" high because in transit the sight had become depressed, taking tension off the adjustment screw which then vibrated out, allowing the sight to raise to max elevation. Just because the maker put it on there doesn't mean it's a good idea.

 

[renovato]

Robert,[url] jedediah-starr.com[/url] has them. From what I've read here, Uberti has reintroduced them. I'd love to see one firsthand. I generally like Uberti guns and if their Hawken lives up to their typical quality, I think it'd be a nice gun to have. Sure is sweet looking.

 

[Robert58]

A few months back we were discussing the Santa Fe Hawken and someone said thy had call and they didn't have one even they have it listed on their website. If you have called and they have one, Great. I went to Uberti's website last night and they don't list the Hawken. If you can get a new one for what they have them listed for, buy it if it is the same rifle that they were making. If you do a search on the Santa Fe Hawken on this forum, you will find out that it is very well liked.

Good luck,
Robert

 

[Smk50]

I dont own either, but we have 2 guys in our club with GPR's 1 performs flawlessly,PERIOD. the other however 9 of 10 times will not fire,snap the cap etc. I have a lock that I bought from a gentleman and we swapped hammers, it did improve its reliability greatly but still will not fire reliably every time. His time is limited so we havent gotten together enough to really dianose the problem again, but it is brand new he hasnt even gotten a box of balls through it yet, so it may be going back to cabelas and exchanged. other than that issue most I have come across are good shooters and reliable.

 

[Rebel]

First thing i would try is replacing the nipple with an aftermarket. Lymans seem to have a few problems with factory nipples.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Are you sure he is using the right size cap? A #10 cap on a #11 nipple can cause misfires. They also could just be caps that have gotten damp.

 

[Zonie]

In addition to changing the nipple, it might be a good idea to run a damp pipe cleaner down thru the flame channel a few times.
It is possible that the grease they use to protect the bore on their new guns is blocking that hole.

By the way, I couldn't remove the "clean out screw" on my GPR a few minutes ago when I checked mine. No real problem. After removing the nipple, I was still able to snake a pipe cleaner down thru the hole and into the bore.

Even if it isn't blocked, it's a good thing to know that it isn't part of the problem when your trying to fix a mis-firing gun.

zonie

 

[Catof9tails]

Just like Rebel said, I had problems with the factory Lyman nipple and replaced it. The factory nipple seems to mushroom out and fails to snap the cap. Haven't had any problems since after the replacement.

Ditto with what Zonie, Headhunter, and Coyote Joe stated.

Cat9

 

[michaelt]

Wow! Thanks for all ther great replys.
Looks like the Lyman GPR is by far and away the first choice of the group. Does anybody know why
there seems to be a LARGE disparity in the selling price of the GPR?? I have seen prices from $355 to $499! I would like to order from someone like Track of the Wolf, Jedediah Starr or The Possible Shop but their prices are on the high side! My next acquisition is a period correct pre 1840 Possibles Bag. Anybody got any thoughts on this?

-TNX-
Michael