Tried? 24 out of 25. Very cool I watched some English gents shooting similar to your restoration me i struggle with a modern day over and under
First proof firing
- Thread starter 11Bravo
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The tier is a great way for 'home's proofing and YES it does jump!
Loyalist Arms gives directions for the same set up and even with it staked down that rubber jumps and buckles!
I have a video with slow motion on YouTube when I proofed mine, Loyalist said they were using it for their customers in addition to the printed instructions they gave me.
You captured sheer beauty off yours!
Loyalist Arms gives directions for the same set up and even with it staked down that rubber jumps and buckles!
I have a video with slow motion on YouTube when I proofed mine, Loyalist said they were using it for their customers in addition to the printed instructions they gave me.
You captured sheer beauty off yours!
.Rudall
40 Cal
Could you please explain this? Was this a new firearm? You had to proof/test it yourself? Is that not done by the manufacturer in the USA?
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You mean you "test fired" it at the range.
I'm just letting you know that "proofing" is a legal term, and requires the gun to be sent to an approved CIP proofing house. I point this out, as you correctly informed the readers that you didn't do any huge loads, but just a load over what you normally shoot. BUT a lot of folks, including some vendors, don't understand that to say the barrel was "proofed" or "re-proofed", it has to be at a CIP proofing house.
Alas there is no such thing as "home proofing" even though my friends up in Canada give directions to do so using those words. You can home test. Heck you can subject a muzzleloader to a whole battery of tests equal if not better than some of the CIP proofing houses use..., but it's still "testing" folks.
Please don't use the words "proofing" or "proof" when talking about a barrel containing a charge and being fired unless it's been to such a house, the barrel passed, and has been given a proof mark.
LD
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No, USA has no formal "Proofing houses" as Loyalist Dave points out.
So since Dave does not like the word "proof" used in place of 'test' we will just say that we silly Yanks "test" a new barrel, using make-shift manners so as to crudely simulate the was an honored House in Europe would do.
And to further answer your question: yes, it was a new and unfired barrel, further; no, Canada has no "Proofing Houses" either - the barrels here and up there get no "proofing stamp".
Rudall
40 Cal
So all Americans ‘proof’/test a gun when they buy one? The manufacturers don’t do that??? You buy a gun without knowing whether it might blow up first time you fire it?
11Bravo
40 Cal
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I guess we trust the proven track record of the USA manufacturers? Yet back in the day of Damascus forge welded shotgun barrels even my Colt 1878 10ga hammer SxS has a barrel made in and proofed in the UK. Why do you think I spent the time testing a twist ribbon forged barrel. The same would be if I was testing a forged original rifle barrel from the 19th century or earlier.
You are correct. As stated; there are No "Proofing Houses" in the USA, that is kinda a European thing.
Here, if it's not made and "proofed" somewhere in one of the European 'Proofing Houses' then we Proof it ourselves and if it passes then we have Proven it should be 'safe' for normal loads.
We dont get a fancy little stamp on the barrel, just a Data Sheet that tells when, where, how...or maybe just a spit and handshake to confirm the deal.
That sounds a good and dandy for some countries, but not exactly correct for you are trying to impose one countries laws and regulations on another.You mean you "test fired" it at the range.
I'm just letting you know that "proofing" is a legal term, and requires the gun to be sent to an approved CIP proofing house. I point this out, as you correctly informed the readers that you didn't do any huge loads, but just a load over what you normally shoot. BUT a lot of folks, including some vendors, don't understand that to say the barrel was "proofed" or "re-proofed", it has to be at a CIP proofing house.
Alas there is no such thing as "home proofing" even though my friends up in Canada give directions to do so using those words. You can home test. Heck you can subject a muzzleloader to a whole battery of tests equal if not better than some of the CIP proofing houses use..., but it's still "testing" folks.
Please don't use the words "proofing" or "proof" when talking about a barrel containing
LD
Around here "Proof" and "Proving" appears to have different meanings so kindly to not belittle those of whom you know little:
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Proofing is allowing dough to rest until the yeast has multiplied sufficiently to give a good rise.
The brewers would “prove this by mixing some of their beer into a small quantity of flour. If the mixture rose, they were in the clear, and could sell the beer. Hence allowing dough to rise following the introduction of yeast came to be known as proofing.
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And as in the USA we recognize no queen nor king I would appreciate if you do not try to play Sister Mary on the way I speak and I will not point out the absurdities of UK gun laws and lack of a 2nd Amendment.
Oh, but have a G'day mate!
That sounds a good and dandy for some countries, but not exactly correct for you are trying to impose one countries laws and regulations on another.
Around here "Proof" and "Proving" appears to have different meanings so kindly to not belittle those of whom you know little:
-------
Proofing is allowing dough to rest until the yeast has multiplied sufficiently to give a good rise.
The brewers would “prove this by mixing some of their beer into a small quantity of flour. If the mixture rose, they were in the clear, and could sell the beer. Hence allowing dough to rise following the introduction of yeast came to be known as proofing.
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And as in the USA we recognize no queen nor king I would appreciate if you do not try to play Sister Mary on the way I speak and I will not point out the absurdities of UK gun laws and lack of a 2nd Amendment.
Oh, but have a G'day mate!
Thank you for your concern,
Let me clarify the subject matter for you. Sorry if some of the words that I use are too large for you to
We are talking of the testing of gun barrels, not a yeast product. Perhaps you were confused? I could care less about the UK gun laws, or whether you point them out or not. I am not subject to them.
We are talking about a safety standard which IS legally applied to many of the products of which we discuss on this forum.
We are talking about an actual standard which is INTERNATIONAL, (yes that word is "big" but just in size I hope this also does not confuse you) barrel proofing is found on three continents, as well as in the UK, and quite open to the United States and any other country that wishes to join.
Proofing is part of the following countries' laws, and a great many of our members adhere to products from these countries, even members here in the United States because that standard is applied. These are:
Austria, Belgium, Chile Czech Republic Finland France Germany Hungary Italy Russia Slovakia Spain United Arab Emirates United Kingdom
Spain, and Italy regularly sell muzzleloaders which have actually been proofed, and they are sold here in the United States. I wonder if you've heard of Pedersoli or Pietta or Armi San Marco for example?
Here endeth the lesson.
OH and if this is somehow "playing Sister Mary", well you are welcome to depart at any time.
LD
I sure hate it when an argument turns into personal insults. Attacking another personally takes away from the logic of the problem, as if by demeaning the source the argument will be nullified. It reflects badly on the one using such tactics.
I am not going to play Games with you Dave. I know full well about CIP Proofing House and how they work.
FACT: We dont have them in the USA (or Canada for that matter).
FACT: We "proof" or not as we do.
If can show me a US/Canada Law about "Proifing" or ban on the use of the Word 'Proof/Proofing' when we here in the USA and Canda 'test' our barrels, then I will bow to your superiority.
Loyalist Arms ships their Muzzleloaders with Instructions for "Proofing" the barrel's integrity if they do not do it prior, another builder I have purchased from in Florida ships with a 'Certificate of Proof' designating When, How.
The word "Proof" is not Owned by CIP , there is no International Law banning anyone who has not shipped a barrel to a certified CIP Proofing House from saying that an individual has 'proofed' a non CIP proofed barrel. Now, if one was to claim they Stamped a barrel with a mark of Proof then there would be an issue.
Here in America a word has several meanings, uses, etc.
You can get your breeches in a bind but there is No Law banning me or Loyalist Arms or anyone else from stating we have 'Proofed our own barrel' - now there Would be legalities if we were to Forge a Proofing House's mark and fraudulently claim it was CIP proofed.
So you can put your hackles down. I violated No Law in my statement, I "mislead" no reader. My video documents all that I did, I forged no one's legal stamp.
Perhaps, Dave, if you have such strong feelings you should write or call Loyalist Arms in Canada and tell THEM to cease and desist in instructing THEIR customers how to "proof" their barrels and re-word themselves to something more to YOUR liking.
FACT: I was given written instructions how to "proof" an un-proofed barrel, I followed them, I documented the process, I passed it on.
"TESTED", "PROOFED", "PROVEN SAFE TO FIRE".
GET OVER YOURSELF
"We are talking about a safety standard which IS legally applied to many of the products of which we discuss on this forum."
Are you saying all muzzleloader builders on this forum are required by law to ship their builds to a CIP Proofing House before offering for sale?
Are you saying all muzzleloader builders on this forum are required by law to ship their builds to a CIP Proofing House before offering for sale?
Just to be TOTALLY CLEAR on this.....here is:
1) The "certification CARD" I received when I purchased my USA built Blunderbuss
2) The "Proof-testing" instructions I received from Canada with my British Sea Musket (well, page 1. If you really wish to see the rest of what they send they CONTACT THEM)
Yes; I Proofed my own Musket Barrel and the builder Proofed my Blunderbuss - neither have a CIP proofing stamp, neither claim to. Both are functioning just fine thank you.
Oh, and I have another Light Dragoon that also did NOT go through a CIP proofing house - it was Proofed in Canada by Loyalist Arms themselves.
WOW, I see "Proof" written all over in these two documents, Dave.
1) The "certification CARD" I received when I purchased my USA built Blunderbuss
2) The "Proof-testing" instructions I received from Canada with my British Sea Musket (well, page 1. If you really wish to see the rest of what they send they CONTACT THEM)
Yes; I Proofed my own Musket Barrel and the builder Proofed my Blunderbuss - neither have a CIP proofing stamp, neither claim to. Both are functioning just fine thank you.
Oh, and I have another Light Dragoon that also did NOT go through a CIP proofing house - it was Proofed in Canada by Loyalist Arms themselves.
WOW, I see "Proof" written all over in these two documents, Dave.
Attachments
For the record, I asked, I didn't order anybody to stop. I have never said nor implied that the gun was unsafe to fire.
I have asked people not to misuse the term, in past postings, long before I was a moderator.
There is no law "banning" you from using the terminology in an incorrect manner. However, you might ask yourself why none of the black powder barrels made in North America are claimed to be proofed.... let alone modern barrels.
Loyalist Arms is quite aware that their procedure is not actually proofing the barrel.
What I have always been concerned about is people who say "the barrel is proofed" which does actually mean it's been to a proofing house.
If you go to a shooting match, where the requirements are that you show that the piece was proofed..., you're going to need to show the proofing mark from the CIP house on the barrel. Simple as that. It IS a standard.
When folks say they did this "at home" well, they fired it what...one time..., and the barrel didn't blow up? Loyalist Arms, of whose products I own four items and actually live fire and hunt with them without worrying about some DIY home test, provide instructions and supplies to do such a live fire test, once.... and it's not anywhere near what an actual proofing house does when testing a barrel. All that you've done is show that your barrel with that load is safe to fire only that load.... OK great for you. Proofing in reality does much more than that.
However for the less informed of us who read this forum, they may and often do, misunderstand that a home test is in no way the same as the proofing done by such a house. As a matter of fact, people who know what actual proofing is regarding gun barrels, often do not understand that it's different for black powder muzzleloading barrels from each of the CIP testing "houses". There's confusion even there.
Which is why I merely caution and urge the people in the group not to use the term, unless referring to a barrel tested and approved by such a procedure. You seem to think my request to stop misusing the terminology is some affront to your Human Rights or some such nonsense.
Forgive me for my concern for the well being of others.
LD
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Old Hawkeye
50 Cal.
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I haven't even figured out what the heck the argument is about! Matter of schematics, I think.I sure hate it when an argument turns into personal insults. Attacking another personally takes away from the logic of the problem, as if by demeaning the source the argument will be nullified. It reflects badly on the one using such tactics.
Yes, Schematics indeed.
Much like when git upset claiming I was "trying to tell him how to load his gun" and got all tongue wagging about it because I merely quoted what another did and why he said he did it. I think rather 'moderator's he wants to be 'dictator'.
I suppose he must do a lot of shoots in USA that do not allow US or Canadian made muzzleloaders for I see my TC .56cal has no European proof Mark's either and neither do a couple of my American made unmentionables.
I stated that America, and Canada, did not sign up on CIP Proofing so we 'proof' our own, if we proof at all. A little search an a couple US unmentionable makers right now today state on their websites that they "proof" and or "proof-test" their products - HOWEVER, should someone or the maker themselves desire to take/ship their arm to Europe then the Law there states it MUST be put through a CIP Proofing House and be 'stamped' as such upon passing.
Dave's problem here is is one of "Control". Fine to inform but ridiculous to over state, over impose, get all hackeled up. After all, I never implied that I was putting 'proofing stamps' on any barrel nor offering any service to others or in any way violating an "International Law" or forging documents - yet, a 'moderator' has become enraged. Oh well.
I did enjoy proofing my barrel, I do however prefer a good Italian made and proof stamped barrel with more confidence. Pretty sure US makers are NOT shipping all their US barrels to CIP Proof House (especially not these last couple years) so they do as the US always has; Proof it the American/Canadian way or dont proof it at all.
MDW Guns has a statement on their page stating the proofing houses do as little as possible to proof a barrel heading overseas, just enough to get the barrel out country.....but is it better then just measuring the barrel in various points, firing an overload shot, then re-measuring and inspecting it before assembling? Probably.
