First range trip, need some help

[Road_Clam]

So got a chance today to fire some shots. Good and bad outcomes. Long story short out of say 12 shots I had about 5 misfires. I'm loading .490 balls, 60 gr of 2F and 4F in the pan. I'm getting a great burn in the pan but it's not making it to the main charge. I'm a systematic type troubleshooter and here's what I know: Seems my rifle prefers a level load of 4F across the pan just below the touch hole. I tried tilting my rifle left, and tilting right to find a preference but didn't really come to a definitive conclusion. I would clean the pan , frizzen and flint with alcohol after each shot, and poke the flash hole with my wire pick to keep clean, but even with a nice clean charge I would still occasionally get a misfire. What would always ensure a complete fire is when I would roll my rifle to the left and tap the side of the rifle. also using my pick to force feed some 4F powder through the touch hole. Never had to pull a ball, but a few times it took me 3 tries to get off a fired shot. I'm thinking a larger touch hole insert might be worth a try ? Should my flash pan always look like dry burned powder ? Many times my pan looks slightly wet after ignition ? Would love your feedback. Thanks in advance !

 

[Sasquash]

You need a good amount of powder in the pan to get a reliable main charge ignition: fill the pan until you reach the flash hole, no overfill. If you overfill u´ll get delays.

Sometimes I read in forums that is better to use only a small amount of priming charge, some say in the touch hole side, others in the opposite. Priming this way I only got misfires.

 

[Artificer]

Many times my pan looks slightly wet after ignition ?

Did you swab the bore with oil or some other liquid before you fired those shots?

If not, it seems like you may be using too much lubricant on the patch.

Gus

 

[ghostdncr]

On rifles .45 cal and up, I always open the touch hole to .062-.065" (1/16"). Seems like many rifles come with something closer to .050" and I've always gotten excessive misfires with those. You might check that out...

 

[Road_Clam]

So, maybe i'm on to a misfire cause. I disassembled the lock and removed the touch hole insert and there was a lot of black spooge in the barrel cavity. When I push my patched jag all the way down the bore I can't see any white cloth so i'm assuming there is a small passage hole at the bottom of the barrel that connects to the insert drilled hole ? I'm really thinking I was using too much Murphy's cleaning mix between shots. I was using 2 moist (just a very slight mist from a spray bottle) patches, and a 3rd to dry wipe the bore. My insert is .062" dia stock, so probably leave it alone for now.

I'm also using pre lube Ox-yoke .015" patches.

My rifle is a Traditions Penn flintlock

 

[Zonie]

As J. Williams suggests, check the size of your guns vent hole. Try sticking the unfluted area of a 1/16" drill bit into the vent on your gun.
If it won't go, use the drill to enlarge the hole.

You didn't mention the maker of your rifle.

If it is a Lyman or a Thompson Center, a smaller hole connects the vent with the bore in the breech plug. Tapping the side of the stock to jar some of the loose powder in a new powder charge can help the powder work its way thru that hole to get to the vent hole.
If the powder doesn't get to the vent hole when you load the gun, misfires will be fairly common.

If it was a custom made gun with a side vent directly thru the side of the barrel, this is less likely to be the problem.

 

[ghostdncr]

Oh yes, the dreaded powder train. On rifles breeched like this (with the smaller hole snaking down to the vent) tap the lockplate area immediately after dropping your powder charge. The loose powder will easily fill that area and you should see much better results than doing so after compressing the charge with ball. Most flintlocks have what I call a voodoo combination that once found, they'll fire pretty much first time, every time and rival a percussion gun in lock time. It usually takes a while to get it sorted out...

 

[don hepler]

I'd also, be curious to know the type of rifle, that you are shooting.

Moisture of any kind, can be a problem. Humidity, is one of these problems. Dry and clean, is what you need.

If you poke around in the touch hole, after the powder is in the gun, you're likely to push powder away from the pan.

My rifle has a white-lightning liner, that is not intended to be removed. It is coned on the inside, which allows the powder in the gun to be very close to the pan powder. This is an ideal, set-up.

My TC has a screw in liner, which has an hex type socket, that requires a hex wrench, to install. On this type of set-up, I try to get some pan power over into the hex cavity.

I expect the rifle to fire every single time and it is rare when it doesn't. I am very particular in the reloading sequence. I dry wipe the pan, the frizzen and the flint, between each shot. I don't wipe the bore between each shot. I shoot 4 or 5 times, then basically clean the bore really good and start all over. I usually have a couple rifles or more, with me, so getting off a few good shots, is all that I am concerned with.

 

[jamieorr]

I have a Lyman with a similar breech. When cleaning, I use a smaller diameter brush with a patch wrapped diagonally around it so I get a tapered cloth wipe that gets into the narrower cavity. If you are using cleaner between shots perhaps a similar wipe would keep the spooge from accumulating.

 

[Maven]

"My rifle is a Traditions Penn flintlock." ... Road Clam

 

[sb 54 cal.]

Might try 3f powder the smaller grain will fall in to the breach a little easier. Use 3f in my lyman 54, cva 50 and custom 40 long rifle all fire fine unless I make a mistake. Pappy :grin:

 

[Road_Clam]

Thanks so much for the input, it's much appreciated. Rifle is all cleaned, and dam there was a ton of crud in the very bottom of the bore. I plan on heading back to the range next weekend and I will try less fluid with my wipes. Pretty sure the breech spooge was causing the random ignition issues. I wonder if bringing a can of pressurized computer keyboard cleaner and a quick blast through the vent hole prior to loading will keep things unobstructed ?

Pappy237, Maybe a duplex load of like 10 gr of 3F then the balance of 2F will shoot more consistiantly ? Lot's of testing and documenting for me !

 

[mooman76]

If you got allot of crud out of the bottom, that could be it there.

 

[wvbuckbuster]

Glad you got it cleaned out. Just use 3F it works in my .40 .50 and .54 Dan.

 

[Kansas Jake]

I have a Traditions 36 caliber Shenandoah and it does many of the same things your rifle does. After cleaning the breach areas as others have indicated I have also found it helps to tap the butt of the rifle gently on the ground a couple of times after loading the powder before loading the ball. I suspect it helps to make sure there is some powder in the smaller patent breach. I too have had to use a pick to push pan powder into the touch hole to get it to fire reliably.

Another observation with mine is after the rifle has been cleaned and store at home it will fire reliable for the first few shots before giving the dreaded flash in the pan. It also seems to be less reliable if I'm shooting really light loads, i.e. 12-15 grains.

 

[Tom Compton]

On rifles .45 cal and up, I always open the touch hole to .062-.065" (1/6"). Seems like many rifles come with something closer to .050" and I've always gotten excessive misfires with those. You might check that out...

Yep, Mr. J. wins the gold star.

 

[Grenadier1758]

So, maybe i'm on to a misfire cause. I disassembled the lock and removed the touch hole insert and there was a lot of black spooge in the barrel cavity. When I push my patched jag all the way down the bore I can't see any white cloth so i'm assuming there is a small passage hole at the bottom of the barrel that connects to the insert drilled hole ? I'm really thinking I was using too much Murphy's cleaning mix between shots. I was using 2 moist (just a very slight mist from a spray bottle) patches, and a 3rd to dry wipe the bore. My insert is .062" dia stock, so probably leave it alone for now.

I'm also using pre lube Ox-yoke .015" patches.

My rifle is a Traditions Penn flintlock

You are quite correct that there is a small chamber that your cleaning jag won't do anything other than push fouling (spooge) into the small chamber. You will likely need a cleaning patch on a 30 caliber brush to clean and dry that chamber out. If you want your Traditions Penn to fire reliably, then you will need to remove fouling all the way to the touch hole. One of the tiny dental brushes can be used to clean the touch hole.

After cleaning your rifle, store it barrel down so the oils don't accumulate in the small chamber.

 

[Many Klatch]

I never wipe between shots. A lot of the times that just pushes gunk to the back of the barrel that blocks the touch hole. I use a fairly loose patch and ball combination that does not require the use of a short starter.

Try a looser combination, use 3F powder and use spit patching. Don't wipe for at least 5 or 6 shots. Oh and definitely open up that touch hole to 1/16". Run a wire through the touch hole after loading.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Many times my pan looks slightly wet after ignition

Well might be moisture in the air; I get that sometimes with high humidity shooting, and also with 4Fg.

Now that it's clean, switch to 3Fg for both the main charge and the pan priming. Simpler, and you have an easier time of ensuring the main charge will get close to the touch hole. Cleaner burning in many cases so you will have less crud. One horn does it all, so no worries, and ignition time should not be a problem at all.

When shooting by yourself, if opening up that touch hole doesn't improve the situation, you might think about joining the blowing down your barrel club.
[Objections to this idea may now commence] op:

Note: You don't have to put your mouth over the muzzle. Just cup your "weak hand" over the muzzle and blow hard..., you'll get enough air to help clear the touch hole.

LD

 

[Rifleman1776]

You need a good amount of powder in the pan to get a reliable main charge ignition: fill the pan until you reach the flash hole, no overfill.

Sorry.Wrong. :bull:
A good lock can ignite more than 50% of the time with no primer in pan. A little line of primer powder in the bottom of the pan is sufficient with a good lock.
Methinks the OP has moisture in the breech of his rifle. He later said he will try less of the gunk he is using to swab. :applause: Yeppers, good start. I swab using a saliva dampened cotton flannel patch. In humid conditions burnt bp residue attracts moisture like crazy. And, yes, the lock pan can look like a mud hole on a wet day. A cloth to wipe pan and frizzen can be very helpful.