I'd like to order my first trad mz but I can't decide between a GPR or a T/C hawken. I want to buy new and preferably a .54 cal. so this would seem to give the GPR the edge but after reading others experiences it would seem that ordering and getting a GPR without any quality issues is more of a hit or miss affair. Bottom line, where does T/C's higher price actually go toward? Is it substantually better fit/finish, parts quality, durability, etc? Please help.....
First trad mz.....
- Thread starter cuban8mia
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Don't get discouraged. But those factory made guns are only 'sorta', about 75% something like traditional muzzle loading rifles.
However, if that is all your budget will allow, it is a good place to start. Most of us did start with TCs, CVAs, etc.
If you can spend more do consider a custom or semi-custom made rifle. They will be more traditional and give you great satisfaction in owning and shooting.
Either you mention should do fine.
However, if that is all your budget will allow, it is a good place to start. Most of us did start with TCs, CVAs, etc.
If you can spend more do consider a custom or semi-custom made rifle. They will be more traditional and give you great satisfaction in owning and shooting.
Either you mention should do fine.
I have both rifles you describe. The T/C has more brass and a higher quality finish ( in my opinion).Thats where the money has to be.. I'm not sure about the differences in barrel quality.I know the rifling is deeper on the GPR then that of the T/C. The GPR is probably closer to to being period correct ( if your worried about that)
For the money..I like the GPR..pretty much PC, no brass to fuss with, the finish is a dull dark walnut type finish. The GPR is more rugged..not to worried about taking her out and putting a scuff on her. The GPR steel also looks better browned..as far as customer service goes, I really have not had any issues with either of them. I have heard that T/C has GREAT warranty service...don't know alot about the Lyman Customer service..others may be able to help.
For the money..I like the GPR..pretty much PC, no brass to fuss with, the finish is a dull dark walnut type finish. The GPR is more rugged..not to worried about taking her out and putting a scuff on her. The GPR steel also looks better browned..as far as customer service goes, I really have not had any issues with either of them. I have heard that T/C has GREAT warranty service...don't know alot about the Lyman Customer service..others may be able to help.
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Is TC even making their Hawken in 54 any more? Last time I remember seeing new ones for sale, those dealers were only offering 50 caliber.
No, T/C no longer offers their hawken in .54 thats why I said that the GPR has that edge on T/C. My concern is ordering a GPR and getting a fixer-upper like so many others here, and then having to contend with returning it. I must say that I do like the GPR's more understated look better. Anyway, thanks to all for your help....
cowpoke1955
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BrownBear is right. The only choice you have with T/C is percussion or flintlock, both in .50 caliber only. Depends on where you buy, a T/C can be almost twice the cost of a GPR. The GPR has deep grooves and a 1 in 60" twist with a 32" barrel, which is great for round ball. The T/C has shollower grooves and a 1 in 48" twist with a 28" barrel, which will shoot round balls and conicals. I have two .54 GPRs, one flint and one percussion, and a .54 T/C Hawkens percussion. Both of the GPRs are very accurate out to 100 yards. The Lyman rifles have more of a hand rubbed oil finish, which I like. My GPR pecussion I've had for over 30 years and never had a problem. If you like the 28" barrel with a 1 in 48" twist, check out the Lyman Trade Rifle in .54 caliber: http://store.thirdgenerationshootingsupply.com/browse.cfm/4,11452.html . If I could have only one rifle, it would be a GPR. Besides, the money you save with Lyman will buy an awful lot of lead and powder :thumbsup:
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BadHorse
45 Cal.
my first was a gpr in flintlock,,,,,,, still have the rifle, still love to shoot it! lots of bang for the buck!!!
Pers'nally I wouldn't trade you my Lyman GPR for any 3 Thompson Centers.
If you go with the Lyman, you definately need to look into upgrading the triggers. The lock on the percussion model is basically fantastic & has pretty much no issues at all, but the triggers suck the big one.
However, for $40 or thereabouts, you can get a set of R E Davis, Deerslayer triggers & they're as good as any triggers on the planet.
The Lyman, as anyone will tell you, is capable of phenomenal accuracy (after a brief break-in period, usually 50-100 shots) far better than I've heard of with the T/C.
If you care about such things, it's also a dang sight closer to an original Hawken (at least, externally) than most 'modern' guns.
If it fits you (pretty important thing to think about) I think the Lyman beats the T/C hands down.
The Lyman has a lot more drop in the stock than does the T/C & that may be an important factor to you. Definately try them both & see which fits you better.
If you go with the Lyman, you definately need to look into upgrading the triggers. The lock on the percussion model is basically fantastic & has pretty much no issues at all, but the triggers suck the big one.
However, for $40 or thereabouts, you can get a set of R E Davis, Deerslayer triggers & they're as good as any triggers on the planet.
The Lyman, as anyone will tell you, is capable of phenomenal accuracy (after a brief break-in period, usually 50-100 shots) far better than I've heard of with the T/C.
If you care about such things, it's also a dang sight closer to an original Hawken (at least, externally) than most 'modern' guns.
If it fits you (pretty important thing to think about) I think the Lyman beats the T/C hands down.
The Lyman has a lot more drop in the stock than does the T/C & that may be an important factor to you. Definately try them both & see which fits you better.
BadHorse
45 Cal.
i love my gpr!!! still love to shoot it!
top is my gpr, bottom is the expensive hawken
top is my gpr, bottom is the expensive hawken
I would get the GPR and not think twice. I've had only one problem with both GPR's that I've owned, which was a missing screw and Lyman sent me two new ones free of charge, without question. With the GPR you can always get another slow twist barrel in .50 that drops right in or for shooting lead conicals the Great Plains Hunter (GPH) barrels come in either 50 or 54 caliber.
It is too bad that you can't get your hands on both the TC Hawken and the Lyman GPR.
They do have a much different feel to them
The high comb and small drop at the heel of the stock on the TC (2 1/4") is designed more like a modern gun which requires bending your neck a bit and getting your cheek right down on the comb to look down the sights.
This ends up with the comb slapping some peoples cheeks when the gun fires. Others with a narrower face don't notice the cheek slapping but everyone notices how they have to bend their neck to look down the sights.
The Lymans stock has more drop at the heel (3 1/2") resulting in a lower cheek piece that fits many better.
The increased drop also aligns the sights with the shooters eye without craning their neck.
Another noticable difference between the two guns is the balance of the guns.
The extra barrel length on the GPR (33" vs 30 1/4" on the TC) makes the GPR feel a bit more muzzle heavy to me.
This can be a blessing or a cursing depending on your physical makeup.
Some like a heavy muzzle weight to steady the gun for off hand shooting while others find it more difficult to hold the heavier muzzle weight of the gun on target for any period of time.
When all is said and done, both are good rifles that will give years of enjoyment.
Both have their little quirks that can stand improvement.
They do have a much different feel to them
The high comb and small drop at the heel of the stock on the TC (2 1/4") is designed more like a modern gun which requires bending your neck a bit and getting your cheek right down on the comb to look down the sights.
This ends up with the comb slapping some peoples cheeks when the gun fires. Others with a narrower face don't notice the cheek slapping but everyone notices how they have to bend their neck to look down the sights.
The Lymans stock has more drop at the heel (3 1/2") resulting in a lower cheek piece that fits many better.
The increased drop also aligns the sights with the shooters eye without craning their neck.
Another noticable difference between the two guns is the balance of the guns.
The extra barrel length on the GPR (33" vs 30 1/4" on the TC) makes the GPR feel a bit more muzzle heavy to me.
This can be a blessing or a cursing depending on your physical makeup.
Some like a heavy muzzle weight to steady the gun for off hand shooting while others find it more difficult to hold the heavier muzzle weight of the gun on target for any period of time.
When all is said and done, both are good rifles that will give years of enjoyment.
Both have their little quirks that can stand improvement.
cowpoke1955
58 Cal.
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If you hurry, 3rd Generation has one .54 GPR percussion left in stock: http://store.thirdgenerationshootingsupply.com/browse.cfm/4,11456.html . That's $45 cheaper than Mid South. Just trying to find you the best price :v
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I have had both and would take the Lyman gun over the TC for fit and appearance anytime.If you want to mount a peep or scope the TC is more suitable as mentioned it is closer stocked to the modern guns, some like the warrenty on the TC but I do not see it as a thing that would sway me over the LGP
Randall Slemp
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I searched this site for a good long time before settling on buying my GPR .54 Flint sight unseen a few months back. When I received it from Grafs was I impressed! For the $517 (includes shipping) I payed there is a whale of a lot of value. A lot of the "problems" reported here are nothing more than learning the idiosyncrasies of these particular firearms. Since joining the forum and reading about others receiving custom built rifles from reputable builders I've learned that occasionally any rifle may need a bit of tuning and tweaking to get it fully dialed in (particularly flinters). But...that's part of the fun and challenge of working with these old tech firearms...making it your own. I'm still working on this and am enjoying the challenge...wouldn't have it any other way. Plenty of good advice and tips available here from the more expereinced hands here on the forum. I love my GPR .
I was going to make the same suggestion. They charge a wopping $4.95 shipping to boot.cowpoke1955 said:
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To be honest, I can't compare the two. I have 9 TC's and have had zero problems with them. I haven't owned a Lyman yet but not because of any bad press here, though I have read that the kits are somewhat iffy.
Living here in TC country, I can pick up Hawken's pretty cheap and have found them to be very accurate and as stated, the lifetime warranty is awesome. I picked up a 25 yr old flintlock and sent the lock in for a free replacement. As to the period correct issue, things can be done to the geometry of the stock to minimize this.
But all things considered, if you MUST buy new, the prices are much lower for the Lyman
Living here in TC country, I can pick up Hawken's pretty cheap and have found them to be very accurate and as stated, the lifetime warranty is awesome. I picked up a 25 yr old flintlock and sent the lock in for a free replacement. As to the period correct issue, things can be done to the geometry of the stock to minimize this.
But all things considered, if you MUST buy new, the prices are much lower for the Lyman
I bought my gpr from thirdgeneration about 4 months ago and love it. This .54 throws round balls with amazing accuracy at 100 yrds off a rest.(the shooter not so much). I do have to admmit that i did have to do a little work to it though. I had to heat and bend the hammer to get it centered over the nipple,(helped enourmously with misfires), i also had to get rid of the factory nipple and get a ampco bronze nipple from tow, but these were relatively easy repairs and have not had issues with misfires since.
The only down fall to my T/C Hawken 54 is you need to pad your arm a little .No Padding on the stock.T/C Renagade Is a very Good Rifle also the Barrel is an inch shorter.Bought my Hawken from the Classifieds Here was well pleased. Good luck from Kentucky Bill
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