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Flash in the pan
- Thread starter rtguard
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Landngroove
45 Cal.
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For my flinters, FFFG in the pan, FFFG for the main charge. Works every time! Also, with FFFG in the pan, you are less likely to have "mud" in the pan in humid weather.
Leonredbeard
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US.
Way back in the eighties, I used 3f in the pan for a while, too cheap to buy 4f. When I did buy 4f again, I had forgot how fast it was. Do what you like, it isn't that much different, I just like mine to fire as fast as physically possible. Fire in the pan is sweet!
God bless.
volatpluvia
Way back in the eighties, I used 3f in the pan for a while, too cheap to buy 4f. When I did buy 4f again, I had forgot how fast it was. Do what you like, it isn't that much different, I just like mine to fire as fast as physically possible. Fire in the pan is sweet!
God bless.
volatpluvia
Many Klatch
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As I get older and my reflexes slow, the powder in the pan doesn't seem to make a difference. I use 3F in my .54 rifle as the main charge and prime with 3F. In my Bess I shoot 2F and prime with 2F. It makes it a lot easier to load and shoot if you only have to mess with one horn.
I used to shoot 5F in the pan. Don't know as I can tell that much difference anymore.
Many Klatch
I used to shoot 5F in the pan. Don't know as I can tell that much difference anymore.
Many Klatch
Personally, I prime with the same horn I use for my load 3f goex.
I do have a primer with 4f in it for those occasions when it's needed. Have carried the 4f primer for a few years and haven't had to refill it to date (it's one of those brass primers with the spring nozel - don't know for sure how much it holds). Guess what I' trying to say is I rarely need to use the 4f.
I do have a primer with 4f in it for those occasions when it's needed. Have carried the 4f primer for a few years and haven't had to refill it to date (it's one of those brass primers with the spring nozel - don't know for sure how much it holds). Guess what I' trying to say is I rarely need to use the 4f.
Guest
You will get three at least opinions
1) ffffg is better, (2) fffg is better and (3) there is no difference. I have read of two different tests on ignition speed using different granulations of pan powder--they disagreed. But the point I got was that the time differences if any are very small. I personally use fffg more than ffffg for priming and cannot tell the difference in my guns. In the old days, musket powder was ffg and they used it for prime. The oldtimers did not use two powders--they loaded and primed from the same horn with either fffg or ffg. It worked for them.
1) ffffg is better, (2) fffg is better and (3) there is no difference. I have read of two different tests on ignition speed using different granulations of pan powder--they disagreed. But the point I got was that the time differences if any are very small. I personally use fffg more than ffffg for priming and cannot tell the difference in my guns. In the old days, musket powder was ffg and they used it for prime. The oldtimers did not use two powders--they loaded and primed from the same horn with either fffg or ffg. It worked for them.In my first two flinters I use 4f exclusivley, those were caywoods with the external coned touch holes. I now have a fusil/fowler with a white lightning liner, and have only used 3f or 2f as a primer and they work great. the 2f is a little slower but I would put the 3f right up there with the 4f. I like it now because it eliminates a horn.
My vote is for 4F but if 3F lights your fire use it. In the old days on the frontier I'm sure they used whatever they had, 1F, 2F, 3F for both main load and primer but now I have all the powder
granulations and find 4F to be faster. I believe that if you want to use a coarse priming powder
you might also want to make your touch hole slightly larger than if using a fine priming powder.
granulations and find 4F to be faster. I believe that if you want to use a coarse priming powder
you might also want to make your touch hole slightly larger than if using a fine priming powder.
I have noticed that FFFFg will draw moisture from the air faster than FFFg will, depending on how wet a climate you shoot in, this could be an advantage...
I have primed with FFg with no real problems, never tried it with Fg, but I have some, maybe I will one of these laze afternoons just to say I have...
I have primed with FFg with no real problems, never tried it with Fg, but I have some, maybe I will one of these laze afternoons just to say I have...
paulvallandigham
Passed On
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Just a thought about why FFg may seem to be slower, when its speed can only be measured in millionths of a second. We may be confusing primer ignition speed and speed of ignition of the main charge.
Because FFg has larger granules, ther is more oxygen in and around each granule of powder, and the heat of the flame produces will ride higher in the pan than when using the smaller granules( FFFg, and FFFFg). Try banking the prime away from the touch hole, and also make sure any powder near the barrel is under the touch hole.
If you think of a candle flame, the hottest part is at the top of the flame, not on the sides, and certainly not on the bottom. There is an air cone inside the bottom of the flame that surrounds the end of the wick( fuel source) while there is a glowing ember at the top of the wick, producing gases from the wax that is being consumed. The gases are being mixed with the air in the cone, and ignite to produce the heat above.
Priming powder has to work the same way. However, it is the powder granules that burn, and the larger grains take longer time to burn up completely, than smaller grains. Both ignite at the same temperature of heat, so lighting the different grades of powder does not involve greater time( primer ignition speed.)
But, if you have a touch hole that is NOT located
above the top line of your pan, there could be a delay in getting the heat into the main charge( main charge ignition speed) because the heat is above the touch hole, until most of the priming powder, consisting of FFg is consumed. To speed ignition of the main charge using FFg as priming powder, you can do several things. 1. Stop using FFg for priming powder, and use either 4Fg, or 3Fg; 2 Grind the bottom of the pan deeper( not likely for most pans); or, 3. Relocate the touch hole by redriling the barrel for a slightly higher touch hole liner; or 4. Bank your powder in the pan away from the touch hole so that the heat of the flame moves toward and into your touch hole.
I have done the last, and when I do it correctly, there is no delay in the speed of igniting the main charge. Just my two cents.
Because FFg has larger granules, ther is more oxygen in and around each granule of powder, and the heat of the flame produces will ride higher in the pan than when using the smaller granules( FFFg, and FFFFg). Try banking the prime away from the touch hole, and also make sure any powder near the barrel is under the touch hole.
If you think of a candle flame, the hottest part is at the top of the flame, not on the sides, and certainly not on the bottom. There is an air cone inside the bottom of the flame that surrounds the end of the wick( fuel source) while there is a glowing ember at the top of the wick, producing gases from the wax that is being consumed. The gases are being mixed with the air in the cone, and ignite to produce the heat above.
Priming powder has to work the same way. However, it is the powder granules that burn, and the larger grains take longer time to burn up completely, than smaller grains. Both ignite at the same temperature of heat, so lighting the different grades of powder does not involve greater time( primer ignition speed.)
But, if you have a touch hole that is NOT located
above the top line of your pan, there could be a delay in getting the heat into the main charge( main charge ignition speed) because the heat is above the touch hole, until most of the priming powder, consisting of FFg is consumed. To speed ignition of the main charge using FFg as priming powder, you can do several things. 1. Stop using FFg for priming powder, and use either 4Fg, or 3Fg; 2 Grind the bottom of the pan deeper( not likely for most pans); or, 3. Relocate the touch hole by redriling the barrel for a slightly higher touch hole liner; or 4. Bank your powder in the pan away from the touch hole so that the heat of the flame moves toward and into your touch hole.
I have done the last, and when I do it correctly, there is no delay in the speed of igniting the main charge. Just my two cents.
Old Ironsights
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Meh. Sift your Red Can Goex 3F and you will get better than 80% 4F. Why buy it when you can sift it Free?
Old Ironsights said:
:grin:
No such thing as "free" powder...if I sift a pound of 'fines' out of some cans of 3F, I've just taken away a pound of powder from what would have been used as 3F in those cans.
When I order a case, I get it mixed...20 cans 3F, 4 cans 2F, and 1 can 4F...$10.40/can to my front porch, so I have no special order or cost for 4F
I switched to using 3f as a prime about a year ago in both my flints. I'm very happy with the results. Is 4f faster? Probably. Does it make that much of a difference? I doubt it.
When I'm hunting with my smoothbore I find it much easier to prime from my horn rather than looking for a priming horn.
I am a firm believer that in wet or humid weather you will be much better off with a 3f prime. I think 4f absorbs too much moisture.
my two cents. thanks for listening. :hatsoff:
Kevin
When I'm hunting with my smoothbore I find it much easier to prime from my horn rather than looking for a priming horn.
I am a firm believer that in wet or humid weather you will be much better off with a 3f prime. I think 4f absorbs too much moisture.
my two cents. thanks for listening. :hatsoff:
Kevin
In the spirit of K.I.S.S. I use 3fg for both main and priming charge and it works just fine. If you want to spend the extra money on another can of powder just to prime with then go for it, I'd rather get an extra can of 3fg that I can use to prime and for the main charge.
I too believe 4F is an eyelash faster...and frankly it should be due to the whole science behind different granulations and burn rates.
And just for personal curiosity I ran an experiment at the range one day alternating shots using 3F/4F for prime and was convinced I could detect the slightest little difference between shots back and forth.
However, if you handed me my rifle already primed and I had to tell whether it had 3F or 4F in the pan, I could not do that.
I don't happen to use a horn when hunting and prime with a pocket pan primer from my shirt[url] pocket...in[/url] any kind of damp/humid weather, I refresh the prime every 30-45 minutes to avoid problems with 4F 'skinning' over from the dampness.
And just for personal curiosity I ran an experiment at the range one day alternating shots using 3F/4F for prime and was convinced I could detect the slightest little difference between shots back and forth.
However, if you handed me my rifle already primed and I had to tell whether it had 3F or 4F in the pan, I could not do that.
I don't happen to use a horn when hunting and prime with a pocket pan primer from my shirt[url] pocket...in[/url] any kind of damp/humid weather, I refresh the prime every 30-45 minutes to avoid problems with 4F 'skinning' over from the dampness.
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Old Ironsights
40 Cal.
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With sifted 3F, I can just (barely) get enough powder to blow into the pan with a clear hole and closed frizzen to get ignition after lift, tip, tap, & cock.
With unsifted powder (Goex Red in particular) this isn't as hard.
With 4F the pan fills completely.
Considering my touchhole is coned on both sides, I rarely get a Fuse if the prime is banked, so priming through the touchhole actually works pretty well for a quick followup.
I'll have to time it sometime.
With unsifted powder (Goex Red in particular) this isn't as hard.
With 4F the pan fills completely.
Considering my touchhole is coned on both sides, I rarely get a Fuse if the prime is banked, so priming through the touchhole actually works pretty well for a quick followup.
I'll have to time it sometime.
